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Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

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Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#331

Post by jackjeff »

thom wrote: post #206
gregmac wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how contactless limits are set, but I suspect it's by the merchant. In Canada most are $100, though there's a handful of places that do $200. Costco is $400. If you go over the limit, you get promted to insert your card and use a pin. Signing a signature is basically obsolete - in fact I can't remember the last time I did. Restaurants usually have a wireless terminal they bring over. It's strange how regiona…

I believe in the UK it's by the card issuers as a security measure (it's definitely a flat £30 for most cards). They're happy to be liable for that amount a few times until the fraud prevention measures kick in, but not more. Apple's appetite for risk is perhaps a little bigger. I don't think I've signed anything for 10+ years tbh, but the UK went pretty heavily for chip and pin early one. But honestly it's a coinfli…

The contactless payment subject to the £30 limit do not use the same protocol as Apple Pay. The limit is lifted because it is a more secure protocol similar to Chip&PIN with a random per transaction CVV. By comparison payment with contactless on card is dumber. It’s essentially equivalent to paying online with your card screaming its number to whoever wants to scan it.

If you use ApplePay on an older terminal, which does implement the more secure protocol, it falls back to the same protocol as used by contactless cards and is subject to the £30 limit.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#332

Post by needusername »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #153
needusername wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of deliberately confusing marketing. "Tokenization" simply means that a new PAN is generated once per device. This is a normal PAN registered with the payment scheme and your issuer. It has to be a normal PAN, otherwise it would never pass through all the exiting payment infrastructure. What is generated per transaction is the EMV unpredictable number, but this is part of the EMV protocol and done for…

> What is generated per transaction is the EMV unpredictable number, but this is part of the EMV protocol and done for any EMV transaction. What about when magstripe emulation is in use, does Apple Pay support that in the US?

Nope, Apple Pay is EMV only.

Only Samsung Pay does magstripe emulation.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#333

Post by cranekam »

needusername wrote: post #111
cranekam wrote: post #56

Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it). I assume this is because there is a thing called TWINT [0] here, which covers several payment concepts (peer to peer transfers, point of sale terminals, online) with an equal degree of mediocrity. It's not ubiquitous, fa…

> I haven't found a single debit card that works with it Well yeah. Because the banks don't make money with debit cards so they do everything possible to sell you a credit card. That's why in Switzerland you have this special variant of a Meastro which you can't pay online. That's a special deal with Mastercard for Switzerland only because Mastercard generally doesn't allow blocking this.

Of course. I understand the business decisions here. I'm just saying it sucks.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#334

Post by cranekam »

ValentineC wrote: post #93
cranekam wrote: post #56

Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it). I assume this is because there is a thing called TWINT [0] here, which covers several payment concepts (peer to peer transfers, point of sale terminals, online) with an equal degree of mediocrity. It's not ubiquitous, fa…

> Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it) I've found the official Apple list [1] to be very accurate. There seems to be quite a few on the Switzerland list that don't have (Credit cards) behind them. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT206637

Thanks for the list. I suspect it's not accurate (e.g. only credit cards issued by Credit Suisse work with Apple Pay, but it doesn't say that on the list) but I'll try to verify some of the others.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#335

Post by fierarul »

privateSFacct wrote: post #99
fierarul wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Romania we have Visa PayWave for years. For small amounts you just wave the card in from of the POS and you are done. For bigger amounts you are asked your PIN and I find that reasonable. I don't see how waving my watch in front of the POS would make this easier, it would actually be more cumbersome depending on how the POS is presented.

So we are 100% clear, contactless cards generally have very weak security relative to apple pay. https://www.which.co.uk/news/2015/07/which-reveals-contactle... There is a reason they are not being promoted in major markets.

I dunno, I guess the card industry didn't stand still in the past 4 years since this news was published. I know my renewed card is newer then that and I never heard of this happening here. Not to mention needing PIN for larger purchases.

I don't care how hyper-secure Apple Pay is. Cash also has some pretty weak security and people seem to use it just fine, the rare pickpocketing notwithstanding.

From an UX point of view, using something at your fingertips to wave is more natural and it's also clear you are paying for something. Contorting your wrist so the Watch is close to the POS seems almost painful in some situations. Maybe waving the phone close to the POS would be better, but you have to reach for your phone the same way you reach for your card so it's a draw.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#336

Post by divbzero »

CKN23-ARIN wrote: post #330
robk wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you do this?

So that retailers won't be able to use DPAN to uniquely identify me across transactions.

On the flip side, the ability to look up your past purchases can enable returns without receipts.

The other week a store clerk failed to look up my purchase when using my physical credit card, but succeeded when using the same credit card via Apple Pay. I would have been out of luck if I had rotated my Apple Pay number.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#337

Post by throwaway3563 »

notJim wrote: post #17

A big part of this is that apparently US credit card companies decided not to include contactless when they switched over to chip cards, in order to save money. Ironically, contactless was becoming fairly common before the move to EMV, but is now pretty rare. I think about half my cards had it a few years ago, but now none do.

It’s coming back quite quickly.

I had an old Amex card that had it but nobody had the readers at the time. Then the readers appeared about 3-5 years ago but the contactless cards had been mostly withdrawn. Now they’re coming back, my most recently issued Amex and Chase cards in the last year or so have been contactless.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#338

Post by Eric_WVGG »

yalogin wrote: post #77
gregdoesit wrote: post #61

I had dinner with members of the Apple Pay team a year or two back. I asked them, “So, who are your competitors? Google Pay? PayPal?” They laughed. “No, we don’t really track them. We have one main competitor. Credit cards. We care about Apple Pay being better, easier and more convenient to use than any of your credit cards.” And then, finishing dinner, the guy paid with his Apple Watch, using Apple Pay. The waiter w…

You can pay using Apple Pay at restaurants? Has to be a special case right?

Portable payment tablets are all over Miami, most accept Apple Pay. Because it’s a tourism hub maybe? Anyway it’s awesome, love not using my cards while traveling. I’m sure it’ll creep across the rest of the country eventually.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#339

Post by hinkley »

hprotagonist wrote: post #5

I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's o…

> not having to make an account for that merchant

I had forgotten that was a thing. I'll have to remember to reach for the phone the the next time I'm ordering something off of a second- or third-choice website.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#340

Post by winter_blue »

CKN23-ARIN wrote: post #285
bret791 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly there, you get a tokenized PAN (DPAN) for every card enrollment. Remove, and re-add a card to your digital wallet and you'll get a new DPAN. The unpredictable number is an (of a few) inputs into the generation of the CVV3, which is also based on a dynamic key from the issuer. Key rotation is on the order of weeks to months (depending on issuer). This is the "unique number" per transaction (part of tag 57 https…

> Remove, and re-add a card to your digital wallet and you'll get a new DPAN. Has anyone made a habit of rotating DPANs on a regular basis like this? Does Apple or your bank get irritated at some point?

I involuntarily do this (annually), when getting a new iPhone every year. My iOS Wallet app resets, and I'm forced re-add all my cards (although it does remember what cards where added previously). Never thought too much about it.
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