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Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

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Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#81

Post by 1123581321 »

notJim wrote: post #26

I honestly love Apple Pay, but I don't use it super often because it makes me self-conscious. I feel like a bit of a dick for some reason. If you try to do something "weird" and it doesn't work, people get annoyed, or it feels like an imposition. Even when it works, people sometimes make some kind of comment. Relatedly, it's unpredictable whether it will work or not. It usually does, as long as the card machine says…

If I’m not sure, I say “Apple Pay okay?” to the cashier first in what I hope is a friendly way. Sometimes they’re not sure and will say, “you can try,” and then it feels more okay to give it a shot.

Feeling rude happens because when you suddenly produce your phone or watch, you suddenly reveal you’ve been thinking of the transaction differently and maybe that the cashier was incorrect or ignorant to assume you would swipe your card. You are unmasking yourself, in a sense. Proactively mentioning it lets them work with you and share their knowledge about the terminal if it’s relevant.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#82

Post by needusername »

notJim wrote: post #39
Cu3PO42 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It rolls a new number every time I use it, Are you positive about this? When I used Apple Pay (in Germany) I always got the same card number. It was my understanding that the number is generated when you add a card to Wallet and is unique to your device, but not transaction. EDIT: The Apple support site [1] claims the following: > Full card numbers aren’t stored on the device or on Apple Pay servers. Instead, a uni…

I thought that you had a fixed number, but Apple generates some kind of unique code, which is sent to the terminal. I.e., the terminal doesn't see your actual number.

There is a lot of deliberately confusing marketing. "Tokenization" simply means that a new PAN is generated once per device. This is a normal PAN registered with the payment scheme and your issuer. It has to be a normal PAN, otherwise it would never pass through all the exiting payment infrastructure.

What is generated per transaction is the EMV unpredictable number, but this is part of the EMV protocol and done for any EMV transaction. Think of this like the dynamically generated symmetric key for an SSL session.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#83

Post by grogenaut »

mrosett wrote: post #15

I thought Apple pay was really dumb... and then I started using it. Especially with an Apple Watch: when I get to checkout, I can fumble with my wallet, dig out a card, wait ten seconds for the chip to read, and then put the card away.... or I can tap a button on my watch twice and wave it near the reader. Done.

When I first got the chip it was like 30 seconds to auth. Now it's about 1-3 seconds, basically put it in, beep, pull it out. Like a less-likely-to-fail swipe.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#84

Post by 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 »

judge2020 wrote: post #27
crooked-v wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it's usually 'insert card into reader, then wait 30-90 seconds'. I don't know where the delay comes from, but Apple Pay is usually faster for me.

30-90 seconds is a big exaggeration. Using chip without a pin number takes at most 5 seconds, and using a pin only increases the wait for the duration it takes to enter the code.

My anecdotal experience in the super market is people have about a 15% error rate in removing the card too early, and have to start the entire process over again.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#85

Post by simonebrunozzi »

_bxg1 wrote: post #54
notJim wrote: post #17

A big part of this is that apparently US credit card companies decided not to include contactless when they switched over to chip cards, in order to save money. Ironically, contactless was becoming fairly common before the move to EMV, but is now pretty rare. I think about half my cards had it a few years ago, but now none do.

Contactless is also a security concern on actual cards. It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches. Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket.

Much better to use contactless from your iphone. You don't broadcast it, it's via bluetooth and only lasts for a few seconds.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#87

Post by Cu3PO42 »

princekolt wrote: post #30
stefan_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the rest of the world want to do with this? Europe doesn't care for >2% transaction fees, and to people in China used to the convenience of sending money around with WeChat, this whole credit card number business must look positively ancient. Plastic cards and P(iece)O(f)S(hit) terminals with a RJ45 connector? No man, you just scan this QR code here.

You should revisit your concept of what Europe likes. Even in Berlin, the cash-only capital of Europe, I almost never use cash anymore.

I think the parent is right. The EU has limited the interchange fee for credit cards (like Visa and MasterCard where the scheme and merchant bank are separate entities) to 0.3%.

They did not make a statement about whether we like cashless or even contactless payments, just that the associated fees are limited, which makes rewards programs essentially infeasible.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#88

Post by grogenaut »

gregdoesit wrote: post #61

I had dinner with members of the Apple Pay team a year or two back. I asked them, “So, who are your competitors? Google Pay? PayPal?” They laughed. “No, we don’t really track them. We have one main competitor. Credit cards. We care about Apple Pay being better, easier and more convenient to use than any of your credit cards.” And then, finishing dinner, the guy paid with his Apple Watch, using Apple Pay. The waiter w…

When I was in Australia this August, most waiters were "Stunned" that I didn't need a pin to buy things. It doesn't take much to "Stun" a waiter when it comes to tech.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#89

Post by anamexis »

needusername wrote: post #71
hprotagonist wrote: post #5

I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's o…

> It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM Nope. That's deliberately confusing Apple marketing. You get one PAN per device. The new "number" is just the EMV unpredictable number. You get that with any EMV card. https://emvlab.org/emvtags/show/t9F37/ > and not care about skimming. Because the PAN is only valid for online authorized EMV transactions.

So, yep? They didn't claim it was a unique feature of Apple Pay.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#90

Post by riffraff »

_bxg1 wrote: post #54
notJim wrote: post #17

A big part of this is that apparently US credit card companies decided not to include contactless when they switched over to chip cards, in order to save money. Ironically, contactless was becoming fairly common before the move to EMV, but is now pretty rare. I think about half my cards had it a few years ago, but now none do.

Contactless is also a security concern on actual cards. It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches. Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket.

my contactless cards need a PIN when used for significant money, don't they all? Is skimming a major issue?
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