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Why are you people defending Apple?

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Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#171

Post by yungchin »

loewenskind wrote: post #170
potatolicious wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument only works in the context of someone like Rhapsody, who is a pretty bare-bones wrapper on top of content. But consider services like last.fm, Netflix, or Pandora - where there is a significant value-add on top of merely distributing content. They are providing consumers a valuable service but yet also cannot afford the steep cut that Apple is now demanding. The "they're distributors and deserve to get c…

If last.fm, etc. are providing so much value why are their margins so thin? Are they providing value less than 30% of the cost of the base product?

Their margins are so thin because in reality they all compete with The Pirate Bay. It's only when you take that competition into account that the 30% starts to sound unreasonable.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#172

Post by glenjamin »

jad wrote: post #140
statictype wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense? Many (like me) already own iOS devices and are invested in it with all the apps/games/songs/books that we already bought. I probably won't switch platforms based on the absence of a newspaper/music subscription service, but I sure would like the option of having those.

In the sense that if you are unhappy with your iPad, your next tablet will be something else. New customers won't buy an iPad if it doesn't do what they want. True, some users might have some switching pain, but that's true for most things. Windows to Mac, Xbox to PS3, Kindle to Nook. Lock in is real, but rarely determinative. Consumers vote with their wallets. The free market is a powerful thing.

How often do you expect to replace an item like an iPad? I'd expect one to last at least 2 years.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#173

Post by Synaesthesia »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #32
chc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's little money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. Also, as a reminder in case you live in a country where it isn't so: Contracts prevent most of Apple's customers from jumping platforms, and s…

>there's no money to be made Man, I can't read this thread. There is so much hyperbole. I should have recognized the type of people this headline and article would bring out. edit: I don't understand your claim. Your wording wasn't problematic. As I read it before and read it now, you're implying that moving to Android results in "little money to be made". That's the part that I don't really understand I guess.

The Apple App store still makes by far the most money - $1.8 billion in revenues last year compared to $102 million for Android Market. Same for per app - an average of $5400 per year for the App store vs $850 for Android Market.

http://www.conceivablytech.com/5652/business/apple-leads-glo...

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#174

Post by potatolicious »

loewenskind wrote: post #170
potatolicious wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument only works in the context of someone like Rhapsody, who is a pretty bare-bones wrapper on top of content. But consider services like last.fm, Netflix, or Pandora - where there is a significant value-add on top of merely distributing content. They are providing consumers a valuable service but yet also cannot afford the steep cut that Apple is now demanding. The "they're distributors and deserve to get c…

If last.fm, etc. are providing so much value why are their margins so thin? Are they providing value less than 30% of the cost of the base product?

What yungchin said, but also because last.fm and Pandora's source supplier has a stranglehold over the market (aka the traditional labels). Like Netflix, their entire business revolves around having the right to play their content, so the content producer can take them to the cleaners easy peasy.

And now they're being squeezed from the other side. Life sucks right now for services that make content discovery and recommendations better.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#175

Post by Synaesthesia »

sethg wrote: post #108
46Bit wrote: post #64

I'm looking forward to Antitrust.

If I understand correctly, antitrust concerns would only kick in if Apple uses its monopoly power to screw its competitors . For example, if iOS apps were required to sell content for less at the App Store than through competing channels, then Amazon et al. could rightfully cry foul. But screwing your customers is not an antitrust violation: it’s capitalism as usual. :-)

Antitrust is about barriers to entry - the market is still wide open for anyone to compete with Apple.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#176

Post by loewenskind »

chc wrote: post #65
neutronicus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, fighting a monopoly is often a losing proposition. This is already well-known Ask Netscape. Does its resemblance to Microsoft in the '90s make Apple's actions more justifiable somehow? You know who Apple doesn't resemble? Sun. Sun let everyone besides themselves get rich off of Java, and look where they are today. And, monopoly, what? Having the best product doesn't make you a monopoly.

Regarding your first paragraph: Are you seriously suggesting that the iPhone, iPod and iPad are anything but ridiculously profitable without Apple taking a 30% cut from Pandora? Apple's reports to its shareholders seem to indicate otherwise. (And if you're not claiming that, bringing up Sun is a red herring.) Regarding your second paragraph: I agree with you. The Mac is the best personal computing platform, yet it is…

>But having a monopoly in the mobile app market does give Apple a monopoly.

They don't. Doesn't Android actually have more apps in their app store? It really is what the parent said: the Apple market place is just better, it's not any kind of monopoly.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#177

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

statictype wrote: post #137
jad wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If users are truly the losers in this deal, then won't they vote with their wallets?

In what sense? Many (like me) already own iOS devices and are invested in it with all the apps/games/songs/books that we already bought. I probably won't switch platforms based on the absence of a newspaper/music subscription service, but I sure would like the option of having those.

Wasn't it obvious when you bought the non-transferable music, books and apps that this was the sort of company you were dealing with?

It strikes me that this is a pretty unreasonable complaint. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I don't think it's fair to moan when it turns out it's a duck.

I'm not knocking Apple, I like Apple but we as consumers need to be aware of what we're buying into and I don't think we can moan that it was in anyway unclear the way they behave, particularly to the sort of person who frequents Hacker News and really can't feign ignorance.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#178

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Travis wrote: post #50
chc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, fighting a monopoly is often a losing proposition. This is already well-known. Ask Netscape. Does the fact that Apple's appeal comes from its monopoly position somehow make its actions less of a shakedown?

I recall reading that Android was shipped on more phones in Q4 than iOS. If true, how can you consider Apple a monopoly if they aren't even the most popular mobile OS out there?

Android was shipped on three times as many phones as iOS in Q4 (in the US).

You might be confusing it with the fact that installed base of Android is now equal to iOS on smartphones. (It's not yet caught up with iOS across phones, pods and pads)

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#179

Post by superuser2 »

elehack wrote: post #71
cfontes wrote: post #46

Apple is just like a religion or sport team to some ppl... no matter what happens they stay on their side, I hate ppl that take things as a religion. BUT... I don't disagree with apple in this one though, they own the infra and without them there would be no place to sell the stuff so you should pay.

They own the infrastructure, but they do not own the device. The customer does. They bought it. Apple comes along and says that anything you want to use on the device you bought and paid for needs to go through their infrastructure. That's where it becomes a huge problem. Not that they're charging for using their services, but because they're charging to let people do things with their property.

They're charging to let people do things through the iTunes store.

Find me an example of them going after someone who liberated themselves from the iTunes store - Cydia still exists. Last I checked, there aren't any.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#180

Post by hogu »

czhiddy wrote: post #100
Bossman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the DRMed video plays through itunes on windows too That's the problem. The DRM locks it to Apple only software and/or hardware.

How does Amazon's VOD DRM free you of software/hardware lockin?

well, for one thing, you can stream amazon VOD on linux, whereas you can't view itunes movies on linux.
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