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Why are you people defending Apple?

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Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#31

Post by neutronicus »

chc wrote: post #19
neutronicus wrote: post #6

"And finally, there’s the related notion that anyone who doesn’t like Apple’s rules can pick up and move to another platform, like Android. Which is ridiculous." What? Ridiculous how? This claim is ridiculous. Suck it up and use Android. You'll live. I did.

Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's little money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. Also, as a reminder in case you live in a country where it isn't so: Contracts prevent most of Apple's customers from jumping platforms, and s…

> Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's no money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks.

It sounds like being on iOS as opposed to Android is worth money to you. That's what Apple thinks too.

Either prove them wrong or pay the piper.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#32

Post by drivebyacct2 »

chc wrote: post #19
neutronicus wrote: post #6

"And finally, there’s the related notion that anyone who doesn’t like Apple’s rules can pick up and move to another platform, like Android. Which is ridiculous." What? Ridiculous how? This claim is ridiculous. Suck it up and use Android. You'll live. I did.

Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's little money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. Also, as a reminder in case you live in a country where it isn't so: Contracts prevent most of Apple's customers from jumping platforms, and s…

>there's no money to be made

Man, I can't read this thread. There is so much hyperbole. I should have recognized the type of people this headline and article would bring out.

edit: I don't understand your claim. Your wording wasn't problematic. As I read it before and read it now, you're implying that moving to Android results in "little money to be made". That's the part that I don't really understand I guess.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#33

Post by chc »

coffeedrinker wrote: post #29
chc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish that were practical, but Web apps just don't measure up for a lot of domains. Personal example: I was recently toying with the idea of porting a design program to be a Web app, but even just getting very simple typography right is pretty intractable.

Sure, not everything can be a web app, but a lot of the subscription world can easily be ported to web app, since the content will likely be delivered in HTML.

If you're talking desktop, I agree, since the browser has become so pre-eminent there. But for mobile, Web apps are distinctly second-tier citizens. Just installing one on your home screen is voodoo beyond the ken of most iPhone users.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#34

Post by adsr »

coffeedrinker wrote: post #3

They are trying to force content producers to work exclusively with Apple. I can up the cost to the end user _as long as I stay only with Apple_. Once I move my product to a second competing device, then it really hurts profit because the price has to stay the same. Once they become the exclusive provider, then they continue to dominate the market, regardless of what other tablets and operating systems come along.

That's not how I read their ToS, they are forcing content providers to offer the same price as elsewhere.

They ban pop-up's or redirects outside.

Both of these are good for end users, and user experience. The 30% cut is only going to affect the providers, not the end users, (at least not directly). They are in turn offering a large user base to these providers, in essence acting like a distributor.

If this somehow leads to providers leaving, I'm sure that Apple will back off some of these rules.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#35

Post by cletus »

Bossman wrote: post #2

And people wonder why I hate the walled approach Apple takes. The article makes another great point about people not being able to leave iOS devices for a competitor because all their music, movies, apps, etc are in Apple's DRM format and won't transfer to other devices. Apple deserves to have control over their own platform, but this is getting a little crazy. The extra fee wouldn't be so bad if developers could inc…

What the article actually says is:

> Not to mention the fact that users have built up libraries of dozens of applications and DRM-laden content that won’t transfer between devices.

What you say is (emphasis added):

> The article makes another great point about people not being able to leave iOS devices for a competitor because all their music, movies, apps, etc are in Apple's DRM format and won't transfer to other devices.

Music is DRM-free on iTunes and has been for some time. TV shows and movies are another matter and have other issues (such as only one download), which is why I won't buy them from there.

But it's not Apple demanding DRM. It's the content producers, who are still until the woeful delusion that DRM prevents copying. In reality it simply annoys customers. The only reason music is DRM-free on iTunes is because Apple extracted that concession as part of a deal that gave the RIAA three pricing bands for songs ($0.69, $0.99 and $1.29, which basically means $1.29 for anything new) over the previous model, which was $0.99 for everything.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#36

Post by chc »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #32
chc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's little money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. Also, as a reminder in case you live in a country where it isn't so: Contracts prevent most of Apple's customers from jumping platforms, and s…

>there's no money to be made Man, I can't read this thread. There is so much hyperbole. I should have recognized the type of people this headline and article would bring out. edit: I don't understand your claim. Your wording wasn't problematic. As I read it before and read it now, you're implying that moving to Android results in "little money to be made". That's the part that I don't really understand I guess.

I originally qualified that a lot more, but it read awkwardly, so I shortened it and assumed people would know what I meant. I'm sorry if it bothers you that much. Is the new wording better?

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#37

Post by darren_ »

Bossman wrote: post #2

And people wonder why I hate the walled approach Apple takes. The article makes another great point about people not being able to leave iOS devices for a competitor because all their music, movies, apps, etc are in Apple's DRM format and won't transfer to other devices. Apple deserves to have control over their own platform, but this is getting a little crazy. The extra fee wouldn't be so bad if developers could inc…

> all their music, movies, apps, etc are in Apple's DRM format and won't transfer to other devices.

Music on iOS devices isn't DRMed and hasn't been for some time. If your new device can't play m4a files this is a separate issue and you can transcode them just like if you had a pile of drm-free WMAs.

Apps are DRMed but even if they weren't it'd be irrelevant unless a WINE-analogue for iOS came about (and consider the time-scale this would take and performance issues, etc. UIKit is non-trivial). I can't move an Android app onto my iPhone either, despite its lack of DRM, and whether the blocker is legal or technical is irrelevant. The real problem isn't that a user can't move their 99c iOS whatever-app to their new android phone, it's that they can't find or don't know how to find or can't be bothered finding equivalent app(s) for their new phone. Leaving aside the whole question of relative top-tier application quality on the platforms.

Movies, I don't know the behaviour here. Do people collect big libraries of apple DRM-ed movies, enough to keep them stuck to a phone? TV episodes I could see, but those strike me as more disposable in any case.

What is the 'etc' in "music, movies, apps, etc"? It's not your photos. It's not your emails. It's not your calendars or your contacts. It's not even the data saved in your applications - there's a trivial API now for transferring files from an application to your desktop via iTunes; if you can't export the data from your favourite applications to transfer to a different platform, that's on the application developers, not Apple.

I suppose it could be your alarms, preferred weather cities and stocks app choices. Or your SMS database, which I bet most people don't even consider as something that should easily transfer from phone to phone (though obviously it should).

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#38

Post by davidu »

burgerbrain wrote: post #27
davidu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments all removed.

Make judgment calls in each case. Don't like or dislike a company , that's just senseless. Rather, like or dislike what a company does . Appreciate IBM's Watson, and dislike IBM's European business dealings in the 30's and 40's. Appreciate contributions Apple has made to personal computing, disliking their control-freak attitude. Use your brain, don't make sweeping generalizations by sweep shit under the carpet.

Comments all removed.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#39

Post by chc »

neutronicus wrote: post #31
chc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's little money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. Also, as a reminder in case you live in a country where it isn't so: Contracts prevent most of Apple's customers from jumping platforms, and s…

> Abandoning your users and moving to a platform where there's no money to be made is a questionable proposition for producers. And a lot of users will have second thoughts about moving to a platform they perceive to be distinctly inferior just because Apple are being dicks. It sounds like being on iOS as opposed to Android is worth money to you. That's what Apple thinks too. Either prove them wrong or pay the piper.

Yes, fighting a monopoly is often a losing proposition. This is already well-known. Ask Netscape. Does the fact that Apple's appeal comes from its monopoly position somehow make its actions less of a shakedown?

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#40

Post by burgerbrain »

davidu wrote: post #21
zppx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a false dichotomy, Apple vs. Google. I think it's a poor way of trying to make sense of the situation. Keep in mind that the word "Google" is not even cited in the link. There's no need to defend every one of Apple's decisions, sometimes people do stuff that sucks, or even brings Google to the discussion just to defend Apple. EDIT: That said, your points were good, I liked the articulation of your comment, I…

Comments all removed.

I don't own or develop for a smartphone of any sort, but still disapprove of how Apple has been handling user (and developer, I do not consider them to be separate) rights. What Google does has nothing to do with how I feel (though I of course have opinions about their actions as well, they are offtopic).

On perhaps a slightly related note: I don't vote for whichever political party opposes the one I dislike the most. Maybe I'm weird like that.

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