Why are you people defending Apple? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#101

Post by zmmmmm » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 2:51 AM UTC

chc wrote: post #58

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's no money to be made Man, I can't read this thread. There is so much hyperbole. I should have recognized the type of people this headline and article would bring out. edit: I don't understand your claim. Your wording wasn't problematic. As I read it before and read it now, you're implying that moving to Android results in "little money to be made". That's the part that I don't really understand I guess.

In response to your edit: My understanding from every report I have ever read is that there just isn't a lot of money in Android apps. Not a lot of developers share, but those who do tend to report underwhelming results compared to what I see from iOS shops (and those who develop for both platforms have said exactly that in no uncertain terms). For example, Kreci posts his profits every month, and the monthly average…

I've put 50 apps into the Android market recently that are direct ports of iOS equivalents. Across the board they make about 40% of the iOS ones. So, it's not as good, but it's a complete myth that there's no money there. And it's still growing tremendously.

I think the perception of Android has been deeply colored by the early experience of developers when Android really was a niche geek market. However after 800% growth last year it just isn't that market any more - it's a market mainly full of real consumers who outnumber the geeks now. When a platform is growing as fast as Android pretty much any benchmark you read from even months ago is going to be misleading.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#102

Post by bryne » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 2:51 AM UTC

scottmagdalein wrote: post #96

chc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In response to your edit: My understanding from every report I have ever read is that there just isn't a lot of money in Android apps. Not a lot of developers share, but those who do tend to report underwhelming results compared to what I see from iOS shops (and those who develop for both platforms have said exactly that in no uncertain terms). For example, Kreci posts his profits every month, and the monthly average…

We have an app in the Android Market and the same type of app in the App Store. The Android app makes about $7500/month and the iOS app makes about $3000/month. We're about to release another paid app in March on both platforms that will be give us more data about the performance of apps in each marketplace. Maybe I should write a blog post about it...

The same app, or the same type of app? Judging from overall revenue reports this would seem to make you the exception, not the rule. I'd read it.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#103

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 2:54 AM UTC

davidu wrote: post #51

burgerbrain wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know you, and haven't conversed with you, so I can't speak for how you support Apple. I simply oppose people who will defend any action, no matter how absurd, because they support the people behind that action in most other cases. You'll see all sorts of gymnastics used to justify it, but it really boils down to people supporting things they wouldn't normally, were they outside of context of their 'affiliatio…

I don't think I was hiding the fact that a big part of my Apple support comes equally from my distrust of Google than my love of Apple. I just look at the wreckage each has created and would pick Apple's wreckage over Google's any day. I'm a bit surprised that people find my position to be unusual. I think it represents reasonable behavior. But I often feel this way on HN. :-/

[deleted]

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#104

Post by whatusername » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 2:57 AM UTC

halostatue wrote: post #78

whatusername wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the issue is the fact that if you have any form of subscription service -- then you MUST use the IOS service and you MUST pay apple their 30%. Apple's service looks worthwhile and valid for certain use cases. But to insist that it must be used for any IOS Native app that has a monthly fee is a draconian change. Reasonably Serious Case: I've been looking at building an app for my wife to offer to her fitness boo…

I suspect that your analysis is completely wrong. IANAL, and all. 1. Apple disallows in-app purchases for physical goods; presumably this would include services that are provided in the physical world instead of wholly electronically. 2. Apps have to be (minimally) useful to people without requiring a for-pay subscription. 3. These new rules would only kick in if you offered content (or possibly services; this is the…

In reality for the case study -- I'll likely just leave it as a web app. I'm more comfortable with the web anyway. Or if it did go IOS native -- It would just be a free service.

re: 3. I worked on the worst-case assumption of SaaS Issues.. Isn't that seperate pricing though? If you have person A paying $200 for Bootcamp + App and person B paying $200 for App, isn't there a problem?

I'm wouldn't be concerned about new customers.. But if my existing customers have the app -- then they would have to have the ability to pay via iTunes for next month.. And that means a 30% cut to apple.

I'm not sure it's something they would enforce.. But I'm concerned regardless.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#105

Post by zach » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 3:00 AM UTC

statictype wrote: post #56

rauljara wrote: post #41

If the basic argument is that apple's margin are too high, I agree completely. They are a massively profitable company; they don't need to be charging what they're charging. If the argument is that there is something immoral about them charging people for use of their subscription service, I call bullshit. Until incredibly recently, they had no subscription service. Now they are offering the _option_ to use a subscri…

Now they are offering the _option_ to use a subscription service. Wrong. Please don't misunderstand this new policy as something that is in addition to the existing rules. The Kindle App currently in the app store (which doesn't offer in-app purchase or subscription) is now probably in violation of the app store guidelines in light of these new terms. They have forced companies that offer any subscription service out…

I agree this is a reasonable although surprising interpretation, as I posted yesterday:

http://zachbaker.com/apple-releases-new-rules-for-subscripti...

Apple has really confused myself and a lot of folks with this ambiguity.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#106

Post by Matt_Cutts » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 3:08 AM UTC

jkincaid wrote: post #76

neutronicus wrote: post #6

"And finally, there’s the related notion that anyone who doesn’t like Apple’s rules can pick up and move to another platform, like Android. Which is ridiculous." What? Ridiculous how? This claim is ridiculous. Suck it up and use Android. You'll live. I did.

I did suck it up and switched to Android. It isn't painless. I now like Android better than iOS, but you need to change your muscle memory and learn where various options are. And all of the apps and content you purchased on iOS are no longer accessible, which is the real pain-point. These things weren't difficult for me, but they're a pretty big hurdle for 'normal' people. If Amazon pulls the Kindle app, a user is p…

I've gotten to see a bunch of people switching from iOS to Android, plus a bunch of people upgrading from a feature phone to Android. If Android is the first smartphone you see, it seems natural to you. If you're used to iOS, it's harder to switch. It took me 3-4 weeks before Android felt natural and the iPhone felt alien to me.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#107

Post by __david__ » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 3:16 AM UTC

Bossman wrote: post #77

darren_ wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all their music, movies, apps, etc are in Apple's DRM format and won't transfer to other devices. Music on iOS devices isn't DRMed and hasn't been for some time. If your new device can't play m4a files this is a separate issue and you can transcode them just like if you had a pile of drm-free WMAs. Apps are DRMed but even if they weren't it'd be irrelevant unless a WINE-analogue for iOS came about (and consider the…

Valid points. You're right. Maybe I went a bit overboard. But you can't deny that Apple is continuously trying to prevent people from using anything but their services and goods. I don't blame them for that. What I blame them for is pushing everyone else out just because they control enough of the market to do so. > I suppose it could be your alarms, preferred weather cities and stocks app choices. Or your SMS databa…

> But you can't deny that Apple is continuously trying to prevent people from using anything but their services and goods.

I wouldn't even say that. I'd say "Apple focuses on making their services and goods work together painlessly." Being incompatible with other things is not the goal but it does end up being the end result some of the time. It's a subtle but important distinction.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#108

Post by sethg » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 3:17 AM UTC

46Bit wrote: post #64

I'm looking forward to Antitrust.

If I understand correctly, antitrust concerns would only kick in if Apple uses its monopoly power to screw its competitors. For example, if iOS apps were required to sell content for less at the App Store than through competing channels, then Amazon et al. could rightfully cry foul.

But screwing your customers is not an antitrust violation: it’s capitalism as usual. :-)

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#109

Post by Bossman » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 3:18 AM UTC

czhiddy wrote: post #100

Bossman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the DRMed video plays through itunes on windows too That's the problem. The DRM locks it to Apple only software and/or hardware.

How does Amazon's VOD DRM free you of software/hardware lockin?

I never said it did. DRM is a problem no matter who provides it. But Apple definitely ties it much more into their devices than other companies. There's an iTunes app built into the iPhone that can't be removed unless you jailbreak. Google has yet to do something like this with Android. You have more options and aren't tied to one specific service.

Re: Why are you people defending Apple?

#110

Post by catshirt » Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 3:19 AM UTC

d5tryr wrote: post #93

jkincaid wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did suck it up and switched to Android. It isn't painless. I now like Android better than iOS, but you need to change your muscle memory and learn where various options are. And all of the apps and content you purchased on iOS are no longer accessible, which is the real pain-point. These things weren't difficult for me, but they're a pretty big hurdle for 'normal' people. If Amazon pulls the Kindle app, a user is p…

'normal' people? Normal people is a pointless term. You may as well just say people. Saying 'These things weren't difficult for me, but they're a pretty big hurdle for people.' would sound horrible and arrogant, but at least it would be honest. You, and the author of this article, shouldn't use such a lazy and condescending phrase.

what do you mean pointless? if you find "normal people" condescending you'd probably be shaken to know that i actually prefer "muggles".

to be blunt, i can't even find the arrogance in the quote you fabricated. are you suggesting that people who are considered tech savvy don't have an easier time navigating new technology?