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Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

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Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#381

Post by slgeorge »

overgard wrote: post #343
slgeorge wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you MUST buy certified hardware [0], preferably with it pre-loaded with Linux [1]. Ultimately, Linux didn't make enough of a dent in the desktop hardware space in the 90's/00's. The level of interest from hardware vendors (ODM/OEM/component manufacturers) has gone down - that's why things are worse. If you don't use non-preloaded hardware you are NOT signalling to anyone that desktop Linux is important. This red…

Well, I'll definitely keep an eye on that piece of hardware. I do intend that the next system I buy can run Linux well. I mean I'm going to stick with it, even if it is bad. That said.. even though I'm pointing out hardware issues I don't think the free software world should get a pass on these things. I get that a lack of corporate sponsorship can make things hard, BUT, a lot of the issues I'm running into are thing…

It's not "open source" that's in question here, it is "work done for free without commercially paid developers".

A bunch of work happens for things like wifi and cpu because of Android and ChromeOS.

But, the number of professional paid developers doing "desktop Linux" drivers is probably fewer than 10 right now [0].

The number of full-time paid developers on "desktop Linux" itself is probably under 100? ... probably more like 50 honestly.

Drivers are of alpha quality (using your definition) because they are not written by the manufacturer. The reliability of drivers is down to the lack of availability of information. The bottom line is that the lack of access to information about how the hardware works means it's hard to make reliable drivers.

Your trackpad example is perfect because AFAIK synaptics had to reverse engineered.

Microsoft doesn't write drivers, the hardware vendors does. And Microsoft runs a test, if the hardware works then it passes the test and gets a sticker on it's butt. HP can only ship hardware that has the sticker. This outsources the cost to the manufacturer and the testing to the OEM.

Whereas, in Linux land those economics don't apply.

I get your points but if you actually want to use desktop Linux then this is one area where you have to go with the grain - buy a PRELOADED certified system because that's going to be built from the smallest set of hardware that the vendor knows is compatible.

[0] meaning there is no-one paid to work on monitors, there is no-one paid to work on that trackpad. What is being paid for is so that Android or ChromeOS can work.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#382

Post by ginko »

notriddle wrote: post #350
swebs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they shouldn't. They should switch to Firefox or Safari. Or at the very least Chromium (from a Linux package manager).

Your advice makes no sense. Are you assuming that the user is on Windows? In that case, Safari is not an option (Apple stopped working on Safari for Windows ages ago), nor is the Linux package manager an option (the closest option is Chocolatey, but most people don't use that). Since we're discussing Edge, it's probably safe to assume that they're running Windows. Or are you assuming that they're running a Mac? In th…

There's Firefox for Windows you know..

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#383

Post by intrepidhero »

mlrtime wrote: post #358
intrepidhero wrote: post #354

Not even slightly surprised. When I got my Win 10 machine at work I typed "python" into my command line to see if it was installed and was shocked I didn't get a "command not found" message back, and confused when the MS Store popped up a second later. Win 10 ships with a python.exe that redirects to the MS Store and they hide in a place that makes its tough to remove from the path. When I got Win 10 at home I got to…

For most users this is great. Instead of having to find where to download python and install it, Microsoft will do it for you from the store. How is this different than ubuntu suggesting the apt command when you type a command?

I closed the store as soon as it opened and it never occurred to me to see if there was python packaged in the store. If they were positioning the store as a reputable place to find curated software I'd be a little more charitable to the behavior as a feature to save users a step.

I'm probably cynical but I think they're positioning the store as a way to extract commissions from software devs. As such I'd much rather download direct from python.org and this redirection behavior left a bad taste.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#384

Post by babypuncher »

noncoml wrote: post #377
rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

Whatever it says it has no place in my paid for OS. Seeing this is the top comment here I can only assume MS PR is hard at work upvoting on HN. Unless HN crowd had a change of heart overnight about privacy, freedom and software license ownership.

People who disagree with you aren't automatically paid shills.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#386

Post by Kliment »

nickflood wrote: post #116
givinguflac wrote: post #68

My god if apple did something like this people would burn cities down. Why do people still trust Microsoft when their OS is literally a native advertising and tracking tool now

On the other hand google search and youtube show the popup for Chrome when you use any other browser, and was showing for years, and yet nobody's mad at that pretty much identical anti-competitive bundling. But no, if Microsoft tries to prop up their 5% broser share, it's really really bad! (I like Microsoft more than Google)

I'm mad about that. Google can fuck off with that crap. So can microsoft. It's not a competition. It's shit regardless who does it. Obviously people are reacting to this now because it's new and if people react violently enough maybe microsoft will try to score some PR points by removing it, but fuck them both for doing this shit. Same with apple trying to fuck over non-Safari browsers. Fuck them all.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#387

Post by jammygit »

Delmania wrote: post #102
aneutron wrote: post #6

Microsoft doing shady stuff again. It's really a shame. The engineering that the teams at Microsoft put to the kernel and the actual operating system at large is amazing. But then some Product Management division decides to shove this shit down people's throat and, for me at least, ruins all the fun of what would is otherwise an amazing piece of an operating system. I paid for an operating system, just let me use the…

How is this shady compared to Google's ads for Chrome on google.com or the paid search results in the App Store? All the tech giants participate in this behavior.

Just because the other skeezy companies do it doesn’t legitimize it. That’s like saying colonialism was great because everyone was doing it

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#388

Post by Lio »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #339
deaps wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an overreaction. It's literally a targeted ad showing up in your day to day work space. It's invasive. I switched to mac a long time ago, but I still have a Windows device because some things are just painful (or impossible) to use on a mac. The difference between using an application that prompts "make this default?" and a specifically targeted ad showing up on your start menu is that the user used the appl…

Apple does the same sort of thing these days, Music.app on my phone keeps showing me a full screen ad for Apple Music around a month, dismissed it about 5 times now.

What I hate is that you can’t even say no to Apple any more. It’s all this “not right now” or “maybe later” passive aggressive bollocks.

I just want a “no never” button.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#389

Post by inviromentalist »

codewithcheese wrote: post #380
zeusk wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try using any Google property without chrome, or try using any iOS device without safari. This is pretty harmless in my opinion.

Your reasoning does not make it harmless, it makes Microsoft the same as Google and Apple.

People defend the walled garden of Apple.

But I think it's just post purchase rationalization.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#390

Post by jammygit »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #193
disiplus wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that, and also we paid for the windows license.

Once, maybe; Windows' business model has changed, they are only charging for Windows 10 OEM now and have stopped trying to publish a new paid version every few years. Their business model is recurring payments now like Office365 and OneDrive, but also ads inside of applications and I presume selling your usage data to third parties.

Non OEM copies of Windows are like $200+ (unless you buy the fake/scam keys from amazon recommended windows sellers)
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