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Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

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Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#351

Post by intrepidhero »

stiray wrote: post #278
iso1631 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last couple of years I've been coming round to the fact that microsoft aren't necessarily a major problem now, compared to google and amazon at least. Doesn't take much to put the shields back upto full. I just don't understand why people run windows. Maybe I just use computers wrong, having been on linux for the last 20 years, but my family (who I refuse to help with IT needs) are all far happier on chromeb…

> I just don't understand why people run windows I do. And just a disclaimer, I am using linux 100% on desktop (and prefer freebsd on servers). Where I run firefox, i3, terminal, evolution (as I am forced to use it due to Exchange support, while I actually prefer mutt) and this is it. I rarely run anything else that is windowed. The reason is simple. Linux desktop really sucks. Instead of whole community stepping tog…

I think a missing piece of the story is that there haven't been UX designers involved in the development of Linux DEs. MS and Apple have money and motivation to hire UX people and do user testing on their interfaces and they don't even get it right all the time. The folks doing open source desktop environment development are mostly scratching their own itches and so (I think) by definition, developing niche products.

EDIT: For which I am extremely grateful BTW. I love to see experimentation in the UI space. Just pointing out a reason we got here that I don't see mentioned often.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#352

Post by smileybarry »

kyriakos wrote: post #258
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, Microsoft did add tracking prevention tools much like Firefox and Safari have. So they did add the common browser feature Google refuses to integrate. Privacy-minded people who insist on using Chrome should switch to Edge over Chrome. But I refuse to contribute to the Chromium monoculture.

I'm probably getting downvoted for this but I switched from Google's Chrome to Microsoft's and i've seen a significant increase in performance especially with a lot of open tabs. Microsoft definitely removed something or optimized. And indeed they have anti-tracking features which google doesn't and ublock origin works unhindered.

I agree, I switched to "Edgium" at work months ago, then more recently at home, and I noticed a clear improvement in performance compared to Chrome. It even stayed past the "fresh profile" grace period, so it's not just a matter of no cache/info/etc. This is with the same few extensions, same use cases, etc.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#354

Post by intrepidhero »

Not even slightly surprised.

When I got my Win 10 machine at work I typed "python" into my command line to see if it was installed and was shocked I didn't get a "command not found" message back, and confused when the MS Store popped up a second later. Win 10 ships with a python.exe that redirects to the MS Store and they hide in a place that makes its tough to remove from the path.

When I got Win 10 at home I got to the shady telemetry opt-out page and immediate switched the install to debian.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#355

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

> This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it.

No, it's one thing (OS) pushing another (browser). The equivalent would be opening chrome and it popping up a message, "Still using Windows? Click here to upgrade to ChromeOS!"

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#356

Post by robinhood »

deaps wrote: post #324
rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

It's not an overreaction. It's literally a targeted ad showing up in your day to day work space. It's invasive. I switched to mac a long time ago, but I still have a Windows device because some things are just painful (or impossible) to use on a mac. The difference between using an application that prompts "make this default?" and a specifically targeted ad showing up on your start menu is that the user used the appl…

Still – it’s a misleading title (border-line click bait). Anti-Firefox ad implies that they say something negative about Firefox, which clearly isn't the case.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#357

Post by smileybarry »

gruez wrote: post #37
moomin wrote: post #21

Reminder that “New” Microsoft Edge is just Chrone with different spyware. So yeah, I’m still using Firefox thanks.

I’ve heard that it still contacts google domains (probably because msft didn’t replace everything), so it’s more like google AND Microsoft spyware.

MSFT replaced every API from what they've said, including Safe Browsing (it uses SmartScreen now):

https://www.ghacks.net/2019/04/09/microsoft-edge-google-feat...

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#358

Post by mlrtime »

intrepidhero wrote: post #354

Not even slightly surprised. When I got my Win 10 machine at work I typed "python" into my command line to see if it was installed and was shocked I didn't get a "command not found" message back, and confused when the MS Store popped up a second later. Win 10 ships with a python.exe that redirects to the MS Store and they hide in a place that makes its tough to remove from the path. When I got Win 10 at home I got to…

For most users this is great. Instead of having to find where to download python and install it, Microsoft will do it for you from the store. How is this different than ubuntu suggesting the apt command when you type a command?

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#359

Post by [deleted] »

deaps wrote: post #324
rafiki6 wrote: post #313

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commen…

It's not an overreaction. It's literally a targeted ad showing up in your day to day work space. It's invasive. I switched to mac a long time ago, but I still have a Windows device because some things are just painful (or impossible) to use on a mac. The difference between using an application that prompts "make this default?" and a specifically targeted ad showing up on your start menu is that the user used the appl…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#360

Post by smileybarry »

cannam wrote: post #277
lorenzhs wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would appear that they do: https://twitter.com/mxwllt/status/882190696224083968 (the picture shows a desktop notification "Try the new Safari – Fast, energy efficient, and with a beautiful new design." with "Later" and "Try Now" as possible actions, and apparently popped up when the tweet's author opened Chrome), see also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22289499

Yep - this comes up as soon as you open Firefox, each time you install a macOS update. I've just finished updating a Mac to macOS 10.15.3, so I saw this loathsome dialog not five minutes ago. Without having seen what MS are doing in action yet, this really doesn't sound all that different on the face of it. I particularly dislike that the only buttons are Later and Try Now - you can't dismiss it without some measure…

Microsoft's "ad" amounts to a Start Menu suggestion that doesn't even appear if you turn off "Show suggestions occasionally in Start", nothing like Apple's notification. It doesn't even use a "pop-up"/focus-grabbing UI. (And it can be dismissed by right-click > "Don't show this suggestion")

EDIT: I was referring to the ad mentioned in the article, at least. Someone else in this thread pointed out a different Start suggestion: searching "firefox" brings up an extra banner message suggesting Edge, but it doesn't hijack the actual search suggestions or keyboard controls. (i.e.: you don't need to scroll/navigate past it)

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