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Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

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Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#91

Post by eelco »

blueben wrote: post #86
YooLi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are marketing your app by marketing the platform. Those commercials you see with catchy tunes and hands swiping and flicking apps, those make people want an iOS device to run apps. Everything Apple does is to make consumers want to come to the platform, and based on their numbers, it is working. Then you, the developer, gets to put you app in the only marketplace available to those 100M+ users. That is the v…

Apple is marketing their hardware product and the platform, not your app.Yours is just one app out of hundreds of thousands, soon to be millions. If Apple is eating your businesses margins, and you gain nothing from operating on their platform, then what's the point? "I get no profit from my customer, and this may even be costing me money because I'll never recover the cost of iOS app development and maintenance, but…

The developers who got their app featured might disagree with you. It is a bit of a lottery, but not more so than, say, sending out press releases.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#92

Post by ThomPete »

blueben wrote: post #86
YooLi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are marketing your app by marketing the platform. Those commercials you see with catchy tunes and hands swiping and flicking apps, those make people want an iOS device to run apps. Everything Apple does is to make consumers want to come to the platform, and based on their numbers, it is working. Then you, the developer, gets to put you app in the only marketplace available to those 100M+ users. That is the v…

Apple is marketing their hardware product and the platform, not your app.Yours is just one app out of hundreds of thousands, soon to be millions. If Apple is eating your businesses margins, and you gain nothing from operating on their platform, then what's the point? "I get no profit from my customer, and this may even be costing me money because I'll never recover the cost of iOS app development and maintenance, but…

Can you please show me an utopia where you are not fighting against thousands of competitors?

What is this sissy attitude?

It's hard to make a living it's hard to make money. You are no paying for the privilege you are paying for access to paying customers.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#93

Post by bane »

stcredzero wrote: post #77
shade wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the simple way is pretty much what the grandparent described. Classify API/mobile access as a value-add and charge extra for it. For a web-based SaaS, I could see them doing something like "Web-only access including mobile web, $10/mo" and "Web + native mobile/API access: $15/mo" -- then only offer the latter option in-app. I suppose you could try to classify Android and iOS API access differently…

Another way: have entirely separate accounts for mobile access. If you have access to both a web-interface app account and a mobile app account, they can be "linked" such that the data is synchronized between the two. This would also be the only way mobile accounts could share data with non-mobile accounts. This would work for apps where the mobile UI is only an adjunct for doing real work on the desktop version.

Keep your high-priced mobile access plan to yourself buddy! Or at least keep it with iDevice users. Us Android folks have gone with a corporate parent that doesn't abuse us or our vendor friends.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#94

Post by stcredzero »

bane wrote: post #93
stcredzero wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way: have entirely separate accounts for mobile access. If you have access to both a web-interface app account and a mobile app account, they can be "linked" such that the data is synchronized between the two. This would also be the only way mobile accounts could share data with non-mobile accounts. This would work for apps where the mobile UI is only an adjunct for doing real work on the desktop version.

Keep your high-priced mobile access plan to yourself buddy! Or at least keep it with iDevice users. Us Android folks have gone with a corporate parent that doesn't abuse us or our vendor friends.

Keep your high-priced mobile access plan to yourself buddy!

All of my apps are planned to be free, ad-supported, with in-app purchases.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#95

Post by natrius »

groby_b wrote: post #87
natrius wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baseless? Because Apple would never try to skim 30% of all the revenue that flows through their devices. That's crazy talk. /sarcasm The post is absolutely not baseless. Apple hasn't made their intentions clear regarding SaaS subscriptions, and it is likely that they want that money as well.

Making a statement of fact ("Apple is taking 100% of mobile SaaS revenue") with no basis in reality is pretty much the definition of baseless. Unless and until Apple speaks on SaaS, this is a figment of the authors imagination. I'm not saying "it can't happen". I'm saying "not true as of right now" I'm surprised "making shit up" qualifies as news on HN these days.

The article begins with the premise, "It appears to me that the new "give Apple 30% of revenue" policy will apply to software subscriptions just as well as it appears to content." Assuming that sentence was always part of the article, it seems like you're just reacting to the headline.

SaaS was an angle I hadn't thought of in regard to Apple's new policies, and their decisions there have important implications. I'm glad I saw this article.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#96

Post by lshepstone »

bradleyland wrote: post #62
lshepstone wrote: post #41

I'm starting to see a whole bunch of posts/comments about people reacting to losing 30% of their SaaS software revenue but no one seems to be calling out the Apple contract specifically lists content as defined as magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video. So I don't see where the SaaS angst is coming from. Apple can charge 30% for apps and content because the ENTIRE product is being delivered on iOS. They ca…

The argument in your last paragraph is almost exactly what everyone said about Apple's approach to subscriptions. "Apple would be crazy to demand 30% from publishers and distributors. Amazon can't afford 30%!" Yet here we are today, wondering just how the hell everyone is going to carve 30% out of their business model. Anyone who thinks that task is anything even approaching trivial has never run a business.

I wasn't arguing that Apple won't do it, just that they would be even more crazy to try this for SaaS than for content subscriptions. It's one thing to charge 30% for when someone is selling an entire product through your platform.

It would be unprecedented if they tried to charge 30% merely for access from your iOS device to a SaaS app. I think there is a pretty big difference.

Lastly, carving 30% out from your list price is pretty common if you're the wholesaler, manufacturer or orignal producer. For most of those scenarios they'll often be able to afford much more than 30%. It's the middlemen and distributors that get really hosed...and unfortunately services that do provide value but licence their content from others are collateral damage.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#97

Post by lshepstone »

anonymous246 wrote: post #69
podperson wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one is _required_ to sell stuff in the App Store. Don't sell stuff in the App Store, keep all your profits. > I can understand if such a business would find this unacceptable. Let's say you distribute a FREE app in the App Store and it requires a subscription at $10.00 per month (through Apple) but you provide a handy button labeled "Get subscription for $8.00 per month" that goes to your website. Apple doesn't wa…

> It costs Apple to distribute (and market, and support) your App Give me a break. You used the weasel word "costs" which is technically truthful, because it is greater than zero. But it is not material, IMHO. Because developers PAY $100/developer to get on the Apple developer program. They spend their own money/time to develop the app. And sell it to a user who's PAID for his phone and net access. Apple is serving a…

You've missed the point. Apple is providing access to hundreds of millions of potential customers who can purchase your product in a frictionless manner. The people on this platform spend more $ per person than other ecosystems because the platform is easy to use and has the widest choice of product. That makes the platform very valuable.

If it was so easy to get this kind of distribution, then why don't you just develop an Android app and put it up on your website and watch the millions of users roll in? Oh wait, there aren't hundreds of millions of customers searching for apps on your website?

A user base, especially one that spends more $ per person that another, is extremely valuable. Historically this kind of access to a large distribution platform was just not available to mere mortals. I remember just 4-5 years ago, large companies would have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars just to have their app listed on the Vodafone Live app store, and then have 50% taken as commission for the privilege.

And for content, many Telco's just didn't allow it...because they had their own content subscriptions they were trying to sell to their users..so forget 30%, you simply couldn't sell your content subscription.

Apple's app store, and a 30% cut is starting to look fair compared to the above.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#98

Post by lshepstone »

Just 4-5 years ago most Telco's were building portals and walled gardens where they were licensing the content themselves (or even had teams creating it in house) and selling it in various ways to their customer base. So never mind a 30% cut, they were competing with content producers. If you were trying to sell content the Telco was hoping to sell forget a 30% cut, you couldn't even get on their platform and you earned a big fat $0.

If you really were lucky they'd decide to let you on but would take a 50/50 or 60/40 revenue share.

30% is starting to seem not so bad...compared to that at least.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#100

Post by [deleted] »

raganwald wrote: post #83
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they do expect a cent. Because they've banned you linking to the website, and they've forced you to use their in-app billing system, and they've banned you from incentivizing customers with a lower price elsewhere and they're taking a huge cut from in-app purchases. So unless you can telepathically control how your customers sign up, Apple's going to be getting quite a few of your cents. It's a bit more complica…

https://raganwald.posterous.com/the-freedom-to-eat-pizza

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