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Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

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Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#71

Post by stcredzero »

GrandMasterBirt wrote: post #23
towelrod wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what is happening here. My company makes all of its money from subscription services that we sell directly to customers. Now if we provide a IOS app to access that content, we risk losing 30% of our revenue if the user happens to sign up via the app instead of via our website. I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to. My website -- built on "open" everything, other than the subscription co…

Now take that and move that to Amazon's domain. The currently offer insanely low prices. Selling each book with a 30% to apple can make their profit margin zero or less. Which means that either Amazon must raise prices on their products and thus giving Apple the ability to compete vs Amazon on price via unfair advantage or Amazon pulls out giving apple a monopoly. I don't think Microsoft ever made these sort of polic…

Now take that and move that to Amazon's domain. The currently offer insanely low prices. Selling each book with a 30% to apple can make their profit margin zero or less.

There's a new ecosystem waiting to be born here.

My read is that Apple is looking ahead at a future full of small/startup ebook publishers.

At the local iPhone dev meetup, I met this college kid with a modest little Catholic prayers and affirmations app. It's basically the electronic equivalent of a pamphlet. He doesn't put any effort into marketing it. It makes $150/month. Granted, that's a small amount, but a very tiny amount of investment went into that small return. With a little effort, I bet there's a lot of independent authors who could make a living publishing this way, and that the big players in ebooks and publishing are actually in the way of this ecosystem coming into being.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#72

Post by stcredzero »

YooLi wrote: post #39

"... they will need to give Apple 30% of their subscription revenue for all customers that want to access SalesForce via mobile." Wow, a huge post based on this flawed understanding. It isn't 30% of every customer that accesses the mobile app, it's 30% of each client that signs up via the mobile app. The rules are pretty simple. If you offer subscription service purchasing elsewhere, like your website, you also must…

Wow, a huge post based on this flawed understanding.

That's about 80% of the entries from this blog that make it on the front page of HN. It's a great blog for gauging general developer perception and dissatisfaction, but that doesn't mean that the opinions expressed are actually true. (Signals all stations to prepare for downvotes.)

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#73

Post by vegashacker »

APIs for software services make this whole thing even more complicated. Some company has a web service offering which they charge $10/month for. They also have a web API, which allows 3rd-party developers to write apps for the service. Case (1): The services writes an iOS app to access their service. Case (2): A third party comes along and writes an iOS app for the service, using the service's API.

If it's true that in (1), they have to offer an IAP-way for users to purchase a subscription, what does that say about (2)? The third-party developer has no way of adding IAP to their app (it's not their company and the API doesn't expose such functionality).

Under these (more and more crazy sounding) rules, is (2) still required to pay the 30%? And given that it's impossible for (2) to have an IAP subscription option, maybe (2) isn't even allowed to exist? But if it is, then the service company could just pay 3rd-party developers to write apps for their service to add value for their subscribers without having to deal with the 30% stuff.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#74

Post by me_again »

I'm confused by how far-reaching this is. Let's take Netflix: I currently subscribe to netflix via their website and consume it via multiple channels, including the iPad. What, if anything, is Apple asking netflix to do? It sounds like: provide a link in the app to subscribe to netflix, which must cost the same as signing up elsewhere, and pass 30% of the $18 a month to Apple.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#75

Post by kbutler »

saturdaysaint wrote: post #44

As I added in the content section, I think that SaaS providers have the leeway to pass along the "Apple tax" to iOS users and thus embarrass Apple a little bit here. I'd like to see a service at least try to make an "iOS plan" - if a service is normally $10/mo, create a separate plan (that would be the only way of accessing the content for iOS users) that costs enough to offset Apple's take. This plan would cost the…

> I think that SaaS providers have the leeway to pass along the "Apple tax" to iOS users and thus embarrass Apple a little bit here

And why exactly would Apple choose to allow this?

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#76

Post by akashs »

LiveTheDream wrote: post #63
estel wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. They'd presumably need to pay the higher price (or some sort of premium) to access the content on their iDevice.

I understood that Apple required that the app and service offer the same subscription plans, so you could not force a consumer to pay a premium (even to cover the 30% fee to Apple). I suppose one could create both plans and prominently feature the iOS one in the app, and the regular plan on the website.

Don't think you need the same plans, just need to make sure that whatever plan is made available through Apple is the same rate as the plan made available through any other channel and that any plan that grants iOS access is made available through Apple. Doesn't mean you can't charge extra for iOS access or have a set of plans that has nothing to do with iOS.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#77

Post by stcredzero »

shade wrote: post #67
dazzla wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Apple's rule that the in app subscription needs to be the same or better than available elsewhere?

It seems to me that the simple way is pretty much what the grandparent described. Classify API/mobile access as a value-add and charge extra for it. For a web-based SaaS, I could see them doing something like "Web-only access including mobile web, $10/mo" and "Web + native mobile/API access: $15/mo" -- then only offer the latter option in-app. I suppose you could try to classify Android and iOS API access differently…

Another way: have entirely separate accounts for mobile access. If you have access to both a web-interface app account and a mobile app account, they can be "linked" such that the data is synchronized between the two. This would also be the only way mobile accounts could share data with non-mobile accounts.

This would work for apps where the mobile UI is only an adjunct for doing real work on the desktop version.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#78

Post by rapind »

I'm assuming that if you decide to sell your SaaS via the AppStore, you can't move your customer data outside of it should you choose to discontinue offering your AppStore interface?

So anyone who purchased a recurring subscription via the AppStore would be lost (would have to be prompted to re-purchase) should you leave the AppStore?

If so, then iOS definitely doesn't seem like a good investment for a SaaS business.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#79

Post by Gogmagog »

towelrod wrote: post #15
scrrr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. But how can one oppose new methods of the closed, proprietary system that generates revenue, when the open alternative doesn't?

That's not what is happening here. My company makes all of its money from subscription services that we sell directly to customers. Now if we provide a IOS app to access that content, we risk losing 30% of our revenue if the user happens to sign up via the app instead of via our website. I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to. My website -- built on "open" everything, other than the subscription co…

If Apple is handling Billing, Subscriptions, Payments, Merchant fees, etc, then isn't that a savings to the content maker? Does the economies of scale with handling those services rest of the vendor, or with Apple?

From everything I have ever read about iTunes and App stores, the 30% cut isn't profitable for Apple. It covers operating costs of the stores. Could someone point to me the place where Apple is making an actual profit on this?

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