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Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

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Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#31

Post by groby_b »

jonknee wrote: post #14
groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

Apple has suggested that if you offer subscriptions (or purchases) outside of your app that you need to do it inside your app. At the same price. Hence the whole drama over Kindle--the purchases are done on the Amazon website but Apple has stated they want 30%.

Yes. How does 30% of content subscription translate into 100% of SaaS, again?

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#32

Post by raganwald »

jonknee wrote: post #14
groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

Apple has suggested that if you offer subscriptions (or purchases) outside of your app that you need to do it inside your app. At the same price. Hence the whole drama over Kindle--the purchases are done on the Amazon website but Apple has stated they want 30%.

"but Apple has stated they want 30%...." of the revenue from those people who purchase content or subscriptions inside the application.

If you purchase your content on Amazon's website, you can play it on an iOS device and Apple doesn't expect a cent.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#33

Post by JamieEi »

portman wrote: post #13
groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app" -- http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html By this rule, all apps that offer subscriptions must additionally implement Apple's subscription mechanism. This is what the OP (and everyone else) is reacting to.

It would be bad enough if Apple was just demanding a 30% cut of all in-app purchases. Imagine if Visa or Mastercard tried to charge the same rates.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#34

Post by protomyth »

glhaynes wrote: post #21
protomyth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This subscription model I have a problem with, but.... Ignoring the original Mac OS (and all the OS version up to 9) is the only way to say they ripped off Konfabulator. Desk Accessories finally make an appearance in OS X after missing since OS 9 and it is a ripoff of Konfabulator?

Can't believe this debate is happening again in 2011. Serious deja vu. [edit upon downvote: I don't mean it shouldn't happen, I just thought it was funny to suddenly be transported back to that time; hadn't even thought of the app nor the arguments around it in years.]

I just get sick of people trotting this one out when it was history ignoring in the first place. It also ignores the whole Yahoo thing, but I digress. Its like during a really in-depth boxing debate trotting out the boxer's W-L record when wearing blue shorts....

I could be in a bad mood just because this foolish policy probably destroyed any hope of micro-payments on iOS devices.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#35

Post by groby_b »

portman wrote: post #16
austintaylor wrote: post #6

The press release begins by referring to "publishers of content-based apps", and uses "publishers" throughout. I think it is pretty clear that they are not talking about SaaS. The article also fails to understand that it is not taking cut of revenue from existing subscribers: only those that sign up through an iOS application.

What would a "content-free" app look like? Aren't all apps, by definition, based on content? I'm not meaning to be cute or trite -- I'm genuinely confused from the press release which category of apps will fall under these new rules. Which is why we'll need to wait for the legalese in the iOS developer terms to understand what this _really_ means.

"content" is actually well defined in the App Store terms. And it doesn't include SaaS under it.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#36

Post by metageek »

groby_b wrote: post #31
jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has suggested that if you offer subscriptions (or purchases) outside of your app that you need to do it inside your app. At the same price. Hence the whole drama over Kindle--the purchases are done on the Amazon website but Apple has stated they want 30%.

Yes. How does 30% of content subscription translate into 100% of SaaS, again?

The original article pointed out that the mobile app doesn't represent all the value the customer gets from the service, then hypothesized that it represents about 30% of it; so 30% of the subscription revenue represents 100% of all the mobile service revenue.

It might be a decent argument, if he hadn't pulled that hypothesized number out of his left nostril.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#37

Post by natrius »

groby_b wrote: post #30
portman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app" -- http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html By this rule, all apps that offer subscriptions must additionally implement Apple's subscription mechanism. This is what the OP (and everyone else) is reacting to.

Not really - all apps that offer subscriptions must go through Apple's mechanism anyways . And subscription is (IMHO) well defined as referring to content, with types of content enumerated. So unless you make the case that SaaS is content, the post is baseless.

Baseless? Because Apple would never try to skim 30% of all the revenue that flows through their devices. That's crazy talk. /sarcasm

The post is absolutely not baseless. Apple hasn't made their intentions clear regarding SaaS subscriptions, and it is likely that they want that money as well.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#38

Post by groby_b »

metageek wrote: post #36
groby_b wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. How does 30% of content subscription translate into 100% of SaaS, again?

The original article pointed out that the mobile app doesn't represent all the value the customer gets from the service, then hypothesized that it represents about 30% of it; so 30% of the subscription revenue represents 100% of all the mobile service revenue. It might be a decent argument, if he hadn't pulled that hypothesized number out of his left nostril.

That, and the fact that it's 30% of the mobile service revenue. If you sign up out-of-app, you don't pay 30%. He hypothesized (out of his right nostril, presumably ;) that all mobile users sign up via the mobile app, even though it only gives them 30% of their usage value.

In other words, "I made up random number A. Then I made up random item B. Together, they prove ." I hear AOL is looking for writers.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#39

Post by YooLi »

"... they will need to give Apple 30% of their subscription revenue for all customers that want to access SalesForce via mobile."

Wow, a huge post based on this flawed understanding. It isn't 30% of every customer that accesses the mobile app, it's 30% of each client that signs up via the mobile app.

The rules are pretty simple. If you offer subscription service purchasing elsewhere, like your website, you also must offer it in your app via in-app purchase. If a person finds your service by installing the mobile app and then decides to sign up, using the now required in-app purchase ability, Apple gets 30%.

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