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Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

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Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#21

Post by glhaynes »

protomyth wrote: post #20
marchdown wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Konfabulator comes to mind: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2005/04/macosx-10-4.ars...

This subscription model I have a problem with, but.... Ignoring the original Mac OS (and all the OS version up to 9) is the only way to say they ripped off Konfabulator. Desk Accessories finally make an appearance in OS X after missing since OS 9 and it is a ripoff of Konfabulator?

Can't believe this debate is happening again in 2011. Serious deja vu.

[edit upon downvote: I don't mean it shouldn't happen, I just thought it was funny to suddenly be transported back to that time; hadn't even thought of the app nor the arguments around it in years.]

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#22

Post by loewenskind »

chapel wrote: post #4

Apple is notorious for ripping businesses built on their platforms out from under the people that created them. It has happened with OS X by them taking a popular 3rd party utility/app and integrating the idea/look/feel directly with no attribution. It has happened with iOS, and now it is just coming to a point where Apple is flat out saying that if you make money on our platform, regardless if the value is outside o…

This sounds a bit hyperbolic. The company that is notorious for doing this is Microsoft.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#23

Post by GrandMasterBirt »

towelrod wrote: post #15
scrrr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. But how can one oppose new methods of the closed, proprietary system that generates revenue, when the open alternative doesn't?

That's not what is happening here. My company makes all of its money from subscription services that we sell directly to customers. Now if we provide a IOS app to access that content, we risk losing 30% of our revenue if the user happens to sign up via the app instead of via our website. I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to. My website -- built on "open" everything, other than the subscription co…

Now take that and move that to Amazon's domain. The currently offer insanely low prices. Selling each book with a 30% to apple can make their profit margin zero or less. Which means that either Amazon must raise prices on their products and thus giving Apple the ability to compete vs Amazon on price via unfair advantage or Amazon pulls out giving apple a monopoly. I don't think Microsoft ever made these sort of policies. Though granted MS never made an amazing platform.

On the flip side, apple created a platform. That platform is where apple wants a piece of the pie of every transaction period. Don't like it? Don't make apps for it. Nobody is holding a gun to any developer's head forcing them to make iPhone/iPad apps. If enough developers turn away, apple will react appropriately. So quit complaining and pull your apps from their store. "But that will hurt my profits" well then quit whining and just accept what apple has to give you. If enough great developers move to Android, and make insanely awesome android apps that everyone wants a piece of, then iOS has some major competition.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#24

Post by eugmandel »

The example of SalesForce in the article sounds wrong. Apple's 30% fee on subscriptions does not apply to ALL subscription revenue of a publisher, just to the subscriptions of users who found the publisher in the App Store. Quote: "when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing". If this is true, there is nothing unfair about it.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#25

Post by towelrod »

GrandMasterBirt wrote: post #23
towelrod wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what is happening here. My company makes all of its money from subscription services that we sell directly to customers. Now if we provide a IOS app to access that content, we risk losing 30% of our revenue if the user happens to sign up via the app instead of via our website. I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to. My website -- built on "open" everything, other than the subscription co…

Now take that and move that to Amazon's domain. The currently offer insanely low prices. Selling each book with a 30% to apple can make their profit margin zero or less. Which means that either Amazon must raise prices on their products and thus giving Apple the ability to compete vs Amazon on price via unfair advantage or Amazon pulls out giving apple a monopoly. I don't think Microsoft ever made these sort of polic…

Sure, Amazon is the poster boy for getting screwed here. But they aren't the only ones getting swept up in this nonsense.

I'm just saying, I'm not Amazon. I'm a content company that sells content to users in print form, and on the web (primarily on the web these days). Customers can only get to my content if they subscribe. Most of them get to that content via our website. Pretend I'm the Wall Street Journal (but I'm not).

I'd like to make a IOS app to allow my users to get to their extremely expensive content in a native application, but now that I have to pay a 30% tithe to Apple, I won't do that. Now I'll make a web based version which will suck more, and we'll let that ride until Apple pulls that out from under us too.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#27

Post by phatbyte »

If this is true, this will be a very unfair policy coming from Apple. This will be the divorce between web apps and iOS. I can see HP/Microsoft/Google/etc opening their doors to free SaaS.

Apple is getting greedy and capricious, and when this happens no good will come from it.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#28

Post by groby_b »

allwein wrote: post #17
groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

>And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. That's the point that you're missing. If you offer subscriptions or purchases out-of-app for use by the app, You are REQUIRED to offer subscriptions or purchases in-app as well for the same price and minus App…

I never even entertained the idea somebody would consider SaaS "content". The thing also lists explicitly what they consider content. There's no "etc."

Yes, you can probably bend it to mean anything, but as is, this really doesn't seem to include SaaS.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#29

Post by fpgeek »

russnewcomer wrote: post #3

I've read Apple's release a couple of times. I think someone should directly ask them what their policy is on SaaS subscriptions, because you could easily make a case either way from the press release. But I agree with the article, if Apple's intent is to get into the SaaS revenue stream, it's a major issue. I have clients who have been considering moving to platforms that include mobile apps on iOS devices, and that…

You can ask Apple what their policy on SaaS subscriptions is today, but it doesn't really matter. If Apple decides going after the SaaS revenue stream is in their interest, that policy will change tomorrow.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#30

Post by groby_b »

portman wrote: post #13
groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app" -- http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html By this rule, all apps that offer subscriptions must additionally implement Apple's subscription mechanism. This is what the OP (and everyone else) is reacting to.

Not really - all apps that offer subscriptions must go through Apple's mechanism anyways. And subscription is (IMHO) well defined as referring to content, with types of content enumerated.

So unless you make the case that SaaS is content, the post is baseless.

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