dont care
The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
371–380 of 537 posts
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#372Here is one statement that the Church of Jesus Christ put out about their finances, which addresses several of the complaints/questions posited here: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-fina... I don’t see any incongruity with a church that teaches its members to save to likewise have a large savings fund. It’s not like they’re just hoarding money: the Church actively donates billions of dollars t…
> the Church actively donates billions of dollars to world-wide humanitarian projects.
This is not true. Just tens of millions annually. Laughably small sum compared to $7 billion annually in tithes (in 2012).
Insight: Mormon church made wealthy by donations https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-mormons/insi...
How the Mormons Make Money- How the Mormon Church Makes Its Billions https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-07-18/how-the-m...
>According to an official church Welfare Services fact sheet, the church gave $1.3 billion in humanitarian aid in more than 178 countries and territories during the 25 years between 1985 and 2010. A fact sheet from the previous year indicates that less than one-third of the sum was monetary assistance, while the rest was in the form of “material assistance.” All in all, if one were to evenly distribute that $1.3 billion over a quarter-century, it would mean that the church gave $52 million annually. A study co-written by Cragun and recently published in Free Inquiry estimates that the Mormon Church donates only about 0.7 percent of its annual income to charity; the United Methodist Church gives about 29 percent.
They even use volunteer work for for-profit enterprises.
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a very liberal western viewpoint. The vast majority of humanity would disagree.
Sure, and that is besides the point. Liberal western democracies are not perfect, but they get a few things right and this is one of them. I believe that children are not cattle, and I would keep believing that even if 100% of everyone else thought otherwise.
I’m thinking you’re reading “community property” more literally than I intended it—with the focus on “property” and not “community.” Obviously children are not property. But children are also not independent adults. They must be socialized. Legal codes all over the world, including the UN Declaration of Human Rights, recognize that parents have a right to choose how to socialize their children. My point is that communities are also entitled to have a say, or at least express their views, in how children in their community are socialized.
(“Community property” is a legal concept in the US where assets belong to both spouses simultaneously, with each spouse having a full, undivided interest. The metaphor is to express that family and the community has an interest in each child, not that children are property.)
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
So?
It’s a minority view that is of little relevance today and which will become even less relevant as Asians, Africans, Chinese, Latin Americans, and Indians rise to cultural and economic dominance.
Latin American here, kids are nobody’s property here either.
As parents we have legal custody of our children while they’re minors, but we can lose it.
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure why you think the genuineness of a belief is relevant when it comes to scrutinizing harmful actions based on those beliefs. Lots of people genuinely believe in a lot of harmful things. Some people genuinely believe they need to kick their gay kid out on the street in order for them to learn what's good for them. Some people with great political power genuinely believe that starting an apocalyptic war in…
> I'm not sure why you think the genuineness of a belief is relevant when it comes to scrutinizing harmful actions based on those beliefs. Because the substantive truth of the theology isn’t dispositive of whether family members have a right (in the social, not legal, sense) to criticize each other from departing from certain norms and practices. For example, there is a lot of evidence showing that the supposed harms…
> Because the substantive truth of the theology isn’t dispositive of whether family members have a right (in the social, not legal, sense) to criticize each other from departing from certain norms and practices.
Yes, it most definitely is!
> Just because someone might conclude that advice is wrong, does that mean family members are out of bounds for giving that advice?
No. But "just" because your "advice" is completely unsubstantiated, which you would notice if you cared to exercise a minimum of skepticism, that does mean that giving that advice is out of bounds.
The equivalent of pushing religion is not "breast feeding is healthy", the equivalent is "you should not vaccinate because that causes autism". Outright bullshit is not the same thing as possibly not 100% perfectly reliable science.
> Or that people shouldn’t have to graciously accept it?
We are obviously talking about a situation where someone in the family has made a conscious decision to leave the religion behind. That is obviously not a situation where they should be expected to graciously accept any further pestering on religion, because that is obviously overstepping a known boundary of that person.
(Note that that is different from trying to talk to them about religion, where there is genuine interest in understanding their position, rather than just the intent to convince them to come back--that is perfectly fine as long as the person does not explicitly state otherwise.)
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a minority view that is of little relevance today and which will become even less relevant as Asians, Africans, Chinese, Latin Americans, and Indians rise to cultural and economic dominance.
> It’s a minority view that is of little relevance today It's the majority view where I live (European Union) and it is also the law here, and there is little reason to think that this will change in the foreseeable future, so pretty relevant to me, I would say. > and which will become even less relevant as Asians, Africans, Chinese, Latin Americans, and Indians rise to cultural and economic dominance. Why does there…
We’re talking about a social rule here, not a legal one. Is your family or community entitled to tell you you’re raising your children wrong, and must you graciously accept that criticism? In almost the entire world, including much of Eastern Europe, the answer is “yes.” That is the better answer. The places where that answer is not true are not only a minority, but are declining in cultural significance. (Arguably, the dead-end detour into a highly individualistic culture is partly responsible for that decline.)
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
And how do you know that your experience is the common one? The exmormon subreddit is an extremely large and active subreddit, with lots of unity in experiences. Its by far the largest known community of ex members of any religion on reddit. If your experience were more common, the exmormon subreddit would probably be as dead as the /r/excatholic subreddit. Now that is a community that really doesn't give a shit if y…
That’s because most Catholics never go to church anyway. But they certainly do care if you don’t baptize their grandchildren.
They do, but it's also not uncommon for Catholics to violate any other precept, e.g. divorce. It's a very lax culture, in this age, in the developed world.
I have plenty of Catholic friends who decided not to baptize their children, grandparents weren't happy but it's rarely a reason to truncate relationships.
Edit: anecdotal evidence, of course, YMMV.
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find a lot of people invoke Christ, but have little to do with his teachings. Amusingly, his ideas align more with beliefs held by “the young left” than by “the old right”. (Yesyes, bad terms but you know what I mean) And yet the real-world allegiances are inverted.
I’ve been explaining this concept to my Christian fundamentalist family members for a long time. They look at the right-wing as more faithful to the tenets of their religious literature, but I don’t see it. What I see is more of a left leaning set of ideals, that aligns with the teachings of Jesus. I think the population of people that are left leaning and Christian practicing is low and they don’t tend to be as infl…
Usually the right winger types are pretty heavily into prosperity gospel and feel that their faith entitles them to whatever they are into. Many of the loudest folks are associated with unaffiliated parishes, where there is no higher earthly authority to reign in the pastor.
You also see a lot of extreme behavior tied to single issues like abortion or birth control. In short, people very passionate about an issue will often veer (or be steered) into an ends justify the means type philosophy.
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For the record I left several years ago, but have many family members still heavily involved. It's an organization which does not allow you to leave with your dignity intact. A lot of people are trying to counter this. As an ex-Mormon I do want to share my experience. Not for the people of Hacker News, but because I know this issue is hard to talk about and I want others to know that they aren't alone. I first off,…
Thanks a lot for sharing this. Never had any experience like yours, but I know of a few friends who experienced similar things with the Catholic church.
You either participate in your church for theological reasons or you participate to be a member of a club. It seems like your friends attend church to be in a club.
Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many "Christians" follow more Moses than Jesus - and ignor Jesus teachings - and would better be called Mosians. Though amassing gold was also not Mosianic.
I see more parallels between pop Christianity in the USA and Mithraism or the Roman imperial cult. It was shocking years ago to read the gospels and realize they are not following the actual teachings of Christ at all. In some cases those teachings are radically different and opposed to what most American Christians seem to advocate, especially on things like economics and militarism. The parallels are particularly s…
IMO this phenomenon reflects the struggles that society has with communications. Mass communication is both miraculous and horrifying, and as controls weakened with deregulation in the 80s, and disappeared with the internet, we’re faced with a world where any idea can spread.
You have places like HN that fill a certain purpose for the audience, but you also have places where neonazis and other repugnant fringes can do their thing.