The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church • Hacker News Board

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#361

Post by sofal » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #355

sofal wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always the term "disgruntled" that is used when attempting to discount the experiences related by people who left an organization. What exactly does "disgruntled" mean to you? Take me, for example. I've spent decades of my life as a true believing member of the organization, willingly giving an incredibly significant amount of income, time, and work toward it. And then I discover on my own decades later that I h…

This comment crosses into flamewar territory, especially the personal part ("people like you constantly come along and want to categorize me"). Please move in the opposite direction when commenting here. I know it's hard on topics like this where emotions are understandably high, but that's why the site guidelines include: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.…

I disagree with this categorization. Rephrasing to "people constantly come along..." could make that sentence less personal, sure, but is there anything else about the comment that you would say is not substantive or thoughtful?

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#362

Post by tomrod » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

alanwreath wrote: post #344

tomrod wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up something that bothers me too. The manipulation of local congregations in order to fund the central corporation is disappointing to say the least. Mormons are often the nicest people you'll find. It's a shame they are expected to express belief in racist, sexist, or other bigoted beliefs in order to be fully acceptable to their in-group. I point out in another comment that, charitably, congregations rece…

It's a shame they are expected to express belief in racist, sexist, or other bigoted beliefs in order to be fully acceptable to their in-group. It's a shame you feel that way. I've been to churches in Massachusetts, Utah, Missouri, Texas, Yucatan, and Guatemala. I'm not sure where you're getting that.

A few commentaries and examples. Remember these are not local congregations pushing this, but the central corporation. The item isn't "all Mormons do this" but rather there is a culture that encourages these divisions.

Racism

- https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/mormons...

- https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/fake-apology-for-mo...

- https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/06/09/39-years-later-priest...

Sexism

- https://www.livescience.com/46867-mormon-church-gender-roles...

- https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02/22/where-mormon-chur...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_women

Other bigotry

-https://rewire.news/article/2019/04/25/lgbtq-mormons-are-sti...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8:_The_Mormon_Proposition

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#363

Post by telmo » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #335

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So?

It’s a minority view that is of little relevance today and which will become even less relevant as Asians, Africans, Chinese, Latin Americans, and Indians rise to cultural and economic dominance.

> It’s a minority view that is of little relevance today

It's the majority view where I live (European Union) and it is also the law here, and there is little reason to think that this will change in the foreseeable future, so pretty relevant to me, I would say.

> and which will become even less relevant as Asians, Africans, Chinese, Latin Americans, and Indians rise to cultural and economic dominance.

Why does there have to be "dominance"? Can't we all just get along and respect each other? Including our children?

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#364

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #245

adaisadais wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of what the Mormon Church teaches is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Mormonism and Christianity are two separate things much like Christianity and Judaism are separate.

For example, Christians and LDS have different answers for these 3 fundamental questions: Who is God? LDS: God was once a man, who became a god There is more than one god, but only one god that we have to do with. Christianity: There is only one God, who is the creator of all other things. What happens when you die? LDS: If you are truly evil, you will go to the bad place. If you are generally ok, you will go to the…

> If you follow LDS teachings your whole life and perform the required temple rituals, you will eventually become a god.

Do I get a planet?

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#365

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:19 PM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #305

x1oqw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?

Christians in general all denounce socialism --even it seems democratic socialism. Christ taught: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick, give all you have to those in need then come follow me, else there's no path to heaven if you're a shallow rich person. I'm no expert on Marxism, but I think there's quite a bit of crossover in ideologies. But the point of my argument is most church's don't practice what…

There's a difference between socialism and charity. Christ didn't say much about governments or governmental systems beyond "pay your taxes."

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#366

Post by someguydave » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:20 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #232

camhart wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the role of agency (or choice) in your evaluation. Forcing someone to do something vs someone choosing to do it of their own accord is quite different.

I don't think complaints about lack of individual agency fit with some of these Christian attitudes. eg. Someone violates said precious agency? Turn the other cheek. Concerned about excessive taxation? Render unto Caesar.

That’s neither a call for cheek-whipping nor taxation.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#367

Post by dang » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

cultus wrote: post #39

I cannot fathom why churches are automatically tax exempt. Regular nonprofits have to jump through all kinds of hoops to prevent these kind of shenanigans. We are supposed to have a secular government. How is it that we single out this one class of institution for special treatment?

Please don't take HN threads further into generic religious flamewar. I realize the topic lends itself to that, but that's an additional reason not to step there.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#368

Post by dang » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #5

not bad for a group that believes in magic underwear, and that a giant space ship will safe them.

Please don't do religious flamewar shitposting on Hacker News. There are other places on the internet for this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#369

Post by mnm1 » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #26

x1oqw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?

I can't speak for more faiths, just what I saw in the Mormon faith. Basically, they literally believe they are the only church that has authority to act for God on earth, it was given to them, and they will be the world wide government during the millennium (a time period kicked off when Jesus Christ returns, in their view).

> they literally believe they are the only church that has authority to act for God on earth

Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, and I'm sure many others (especially Christian) believe the same. Seems like the one thing they have in common is their own narcissistic delusion about their importance. It also makes a great argument against the arrogance and stupidity of such teachings. After all, if only a subset of people of earth have access to god, that's the kind of god people with a brain will not want to get to know: a piece of shit asshole like the one from the Bible who favors certain people, gets angry, tortures and kills like some crazy lunatic. No thanks.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#370

Post by godelski » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #357

godelski wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you would have to have been baptized in the church, professed to believe in the church's doctrines, voluntarily consented to being a member, provided personal data, etc, so a retraction of all that is a relatively serious decision). *at 8 Remember, you get baptized __at 8__. If you're a male, you get the priesthood at __12__. You're talking about consent and volunteering that information. There's a reason we legall…

> No means no. Local leaders don't have direct control over the removal of someone's membership record, and that's a reasonable safeguard against local leaders/members (deliberately or accidentally) performing such a significant action on behalf of potentially hundreds of other members. Most companies operate under similar safeguards when it comes to data security and deletion requests (requiring some kind of procedu…

> Most companies operate under similar safeguards when it comes to data security and deletion requests (requiring some kind of procedure rather than hearing you just say the magic words "delete my account" and not even verifying your identity)

Under GDPR most companies have a button you can press. Sure, might stay cached for 90 days or whatever, but essentially you are just telling them. There are ones harder, where you have to email them (like going to a Bishop...). The worst are that you have to verify your identity with legal document.

And I'm not saying the church doesn't have to expunge all records of you existing within their institution. I just want something akin to a Do Not Call list. Right now I feel that the church respects me just as much as the telemarketer that I ask to take me off their list (they're legally required to btw, but they usually don't. I worked in one of these centers, they tell you to ignore "customers" like that).