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Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

nrk.no

181–190 of 213 posts

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#181
We don't have to be surprised about some of these events, since they have been predicted in the scriptures, for now, for a long time (ice melting, storms, quakes, waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds, fires/smoke, all things in commotion, and other significant catastrophic events).

I greatly appreciate the science and am glad for progress in our efforts. But I think we are not competent to solve planet-wide issues when we have largely rejected the instructions given by the earth's Creator (like, honesty, the Golden Rule, etc, etc): we have a hard time trusting each other even when we say we agree. I'm glad we can share our own thoughts. We need His help both to address important issues globally, and in our personal lives.

And importantly, we can be OK. Related, more detailed thoughts at http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581820.html , a simple site w/ no javascript or sales).

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#182

What I have found more frustrating than those in denial of climate change lately, is those who deny responsibility. That the real problem is in other countries. India. China. America. Little old X in Europe can't possible be the ones that need to sort it out. Therefore there's no point changing our habits. I feel a little hopeless in these discussions. I have little hope for change. I cannot argue against the fact th…

> the real problem is in other countries It's worse than that. And this always receives a negative reaction...yet this is the truth nobody seems to want to talk about save a very few brave researchers: We can't do a thing about it. Period. I've written about this many times. This isn't about denying climate change or our contribution to atmospheric CO2 concentration --that would be silly, it's as real as it gets. Thi…

Cool so we've moved from "global warming isn't happening" to "it's happening but we can't do anything so let's make the best of it".

Going 100% renewable alone isn't enough. We also need afforestation programs and carbon capture programs on a massive scale.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked it. Fight me.

The UX is discriminatory against visually impaired people. The layout genuinely hurts my eyes to read. I have vision problems and the continuous picture changes after every sentence is very uncomfortable to view. The contrast changes rapidly from bright to dark or completely black. Then there are light pictures with white text rendered over them. After the first few "slides" I had to close the article. It was too unc…

Bland high-contrast sites are discriminatory against people with depressive disorders. I'd kill myself if all information and storytelling came in man page format. So perhaps you should think before you put yourself on a pedestal.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#184

What I have found more frustrating than those in denial of climate change lately, is those who deny responsibility. That the real problem is in other countries. India. China. America. Little old X in Europe can't possible be the ones that need to sort it out. Therefore there's no point changing our habits. I feel a little hopeless in these discussions. I have little hope for change. I cannot argue against the fact th…

Collective action is essential but the way forward is through smaller efforts as pilot projects and to prove the market. Setting a good example doesn't inevitably result in everyone following along, but a proven solution is a whole lot easier to sell than a proposal that's never been tried at scale.

I'd go further and say there could easily be a set of outcomes where it's a big first mover advantage for anyone who develops the approach that works in any of the many niches needed to move forward. And for the first nation that systematically enables that kind of scaled climate focused development - they'll get huge payback as the effects get worse and lagging nations pony up the money to mitigate effects and go to leading nations and companies looking for solutions with any sort of track record.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#185
post #132

Norway's sovereign wealth fund is over $1 trillion (with a T), which is all from petroleum profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor... They should pledge at least 75% of that fund for CO2 removal technology R&D and other mitigation solutions.

> which is all from petroleum profits

It is an investment fund which is heavily invested in the stock market (up to 60%). A lot of the money in the fund is investment profit. They've been investing for 30 years now.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#186
post #134

The thing about climate change is that some small proportion of the population, probably elites, farsighted and lucky will likely benefit from it, in the form of profiting off the weakest and more vulnerable by providing some sort of assistance or accommodation, from new industries that will arise to accommodate or from arbitrage on land that will become uninhabitable versus that which will become newly inhabitable.…

This is too contrived an explanation (for the general climate change denialism), I think. I think there are two facets to it: 1) Some industries refuse to even consider it because it means they're effectively dead -- coal, oil, and a few other industries. They fuel propaganda because of this 2) Sheer ignorance I say because it's very difficult and fragile to try and profit off a genuine catastrophe. We are indeed hea…

3) Some people just want to see the world burn. I know people who truly believe in climate change and just don't care about the ramifications.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#187

Ask HN: Can anyone point me to an article debunking this particularly insidious climate denier narrative? This is how it was given to me: 1. CO2 is a green house gas, but a very weak one. Like, homeopathically weak. We could increase CO2 100x in the atmosphere and it wouldn't change a thing temperature- or climate-wise (other than inducing more plant growth). 2. The reason we see CO2 increases associated with warming…

> the Sun is what heats and cools the earth

The Sun very obviously heats the Earth. However, in what will come as a complete shock to many, things can have multiple causes - particularly things which occur on a planetary scale. The Sun is a source of heat that everyone is well aware of. If that was all there was to it then the models would be extremely simple. We can measure the Sun, we know what it is doing.

Building a climate model based on a single variable would be fantastic if it was predictive. Definitely important and good start - now add the other 10,000 variables to the model.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the real problem is in other countries It's worse than that. And this always receives a negative reaction...yet this is the truth nobody seems to want to talk about save a very few brave researchers: We can't do a thing about it. Period. I've written about this many times. This isn't about denying climate change or our contribution to atmospheric CO2 concentration --that would be silly, it's as real as it gets. Thi…

Cool so we've moved from "global warming isn't happening" to "it's happening but we can't do anything so let's make the best of it". Going 100% renewable alone isn't enough. We also need afforestation programs and carbon capture programs on a massive scale.

Well, nobody said there's rule that says reality has to align with how we would like things to be.

The problem is greater than that. I urge you to read the paper and look at the data. We are talking about planetary scale issues here, which means solving the problem in 50 or 100 years by forcing it (chemically or whatever) is far more likely to kill all life on this planet than to fix anything at all.

And, so, sadly, 100% renewable --which is impossible-- and reforestation will not do it either.

First of all, aside from the fact that 100% renewable --again, global, planetary scale-- is impossible, we already know that, if we did that, atmospheric CO2 levels would continue to rise exponentially. That's the paper I linked to in my comment.

That leaves reforestation. So, we start with atmospheric CO2 continuing to rise exponentially and want trees to fix it.

Here's the other dose of reality, which comes from a simple question:

How did the planet "fix it" on its own when we were not around?

Simple:

- Trees grew - Storms, cyclones, hurricanes, rain

And it took 50,000 to 100,000 years for that to drop atmospheric CO2 by 100 ppm. Again, please, don't take my word for it, I'm just another delusional moron, go look at the data and challenge that. I'd be very interested in learning I am wrong and how.

The other question is:

How did the planet cause CO2 levels to rise?

Simple:

- Massive continental scale fires burning for tens of thousands of years

Look at what's going on in Australia. Even with all of our technology we can't stop it. I have no idea how much CO2 got injected into the atmosphere so far but it can't be trivial. Now imagine that at a global scale, with massive country and continent scale fires raging unimpeded. That's how the planet did it.

Which brings me back to the reforestation issue. Yes, we need to restore the Amazon and other areas. What we've done is criminal. However, we are not going to fix the problem in 100 years by doing this. We can't.

The other danger is, once again, fires. If we plant trees on every available square meter --assuming that was possible-- we would be creating massive amounts of fuel for fires much larger than what we are seeing in Australia. In other words, just planting trees isn't a solution at all, and doing it without an understanding of the dangers involved could kill more life on earth than the alternatives.

It's a very difficult problem. I don't claim to have any solution. All I know is that we are not discussing the truth. All we have are two religious camps, one saying it isn't real and the other saying we have to destroy entire economies to fix it in 50 years. Both are crazy.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#189

> The short summary of climate change in Norway is that our country has become one degree Celsius warmer over the past 115 years Honest question, how is 1 degree not in some kind of normal range or within measurement error?

Room temperature is about ~300 Kelvin (and of course 1 degree Celsius is 1 degree Kelvin). Temperatures rising by 1 degree Celsius is about .3% average absolute temperature increase. It's hard to imagine that over 150 years, a change of .3% is particularly significant.

Odd way to measure it, starting from absolute zero.

If we take extremely conservative numbers and say the current average temp is 0C and death is certain at 100C then we moved 1% closer. I suspect some krazy kooks might suggest that the Earth would be uninhabitable long before 100C is attained.

Re: Global warming has begun to make Norway warmer and wetter

#190

These visually ableist articles need to be stopped. I have vision problems from an eye injury and I can't read the damn thing because the varying contrast between the pictures of every single sentences is very uncomfortable to read. Light-dark-light-black etc. If you turn off js or use a minimalist browser like netsurf you get the same long scrolling page without the pictures which defeats the articles purpose. Tech…

I too have problems with contrast, but it worked fine in Firefox reader mode.
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