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Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

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Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#211

Post by _1100 »

darrelld wrote: post #186
austincheney wrote: post #124

Perhaps the closest opposite to narcissism is humility. One way to really experience humility is to inject yourself into something truly foreign where money is an insufficient remedy. I don't know what that humbling experience will be for you. For me it was living in Afghanistan for 2 years, of which one of those years I traveled frequently and spoke with many people there. It doesn't matter how much money you make a…

Sorry but no. This will not fix narcissism. Narcissists are broken people incapable of self-reflection and everything centers around them. They see everything in the world as being put here for their enjoyment. They thrive off of attention (negative or positive) and it's the only time they feel alive.

And yet normal people can still act narcissistically at times, and can do this more or less often at different stages of life or in different circumstances.

The OP could very well be a person just realizing that they want to focus more on others and this is a completely normal stage of life that different experiences or perspectives can help with.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#212

Post by MFLoon »

JonathanMerklin wrote: post #109
ggambetta wrote: post #15

Seeing a therapist might be infinitely better than reading a book, and not just for narcissism. We're all broken in our own wonderful and unique ways. I've been seeing a therapist for 5 years now, and the positive impact this has had in my life and on my general self-awareness can't be overstated. As engineers and tech people we have one tool that has proven incredible useful in our careers: our brilliant rational mi…

Honest question, really trying hard not to word it in a standoffish way: what do you get out of a therapist that can't be obtained from thought or general conversation outside of therapy? I don't think a "brilliant rational mind" is a prerequisite for coming to the conclusion that you're spending money to lock someone in conversation with you - someone that would not associate with you otherwise. To me, the relations…

Calling it 'conversational prostitution' isn't really an accurate analogy; or rather, it shouldn't be if you're taking the therapy seriously, though a lazy therapist/patient couple could certainly devolve into something more like that. A prostitute provides a luxury service; a therapist is more like a business consultant, as you are both expected to put in work to understand the problems and work together towards solutions. So, sure, you could try to find the solutions yourself, but you don't know what you don't know, or even if you do generally know what your problems are, there's still an opportunity cost in building up the psychological domain expertise to fix them 'in house', when you could expedite the process by bringing in an expert.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#213

Post by munificent »

JonathanMerklin wrote: post #109
ggambetta wrote: post #15

Seeing a therapist might be infinitely better than reading a book, and not just for narcissism. We're all broken in our own wonderful and unique ways. I've been seeing a therapist for 5 years now, and the positive impact this has had in my life and on my general self-awareness can't be overstated. As engineers and tech people we have one tool that has proven incredible useful in our careers: our brilliant rational mi…

Honest question, really trying hard not to word it in a standoffish way: what do you get out of a therapist that can't be obtained from thought or general conversation outside of therapy? I don't think a "brilliant rational mind" is a prerequisite for coming to the conclusion that you're spending money to lock someone in conversation with you - someone that would not associate with you otherwise. To me, the relations…

> I just don't see it

That's half of the point right there. You only know all the thoughts you will come up with. You go to a therapist because a good one will tell you things you never would have considered at all. Your mind has ruts so deeply worn you don't even know they are there. A therapist will nudge you out of them.

I've had a number of therapy sessions where my therapist said something about myself or my past that I literally had never considered in my entire life.

The other half is that good therapists have a lot of training in how the mind works and the tricks it plays on itself. They know to look for patterns where when you say X the problem is really Y, which is a connection you yourself have never made.

It's like asking "Why should I read this book? I'm not aware of anything in it that I don't already know." The point is that you don't know what you don't know that's in it. You can't accurately simulate a therapist in your head because your simulated one only knows the things you already know. An actual therapist will provide novel insight.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#214

Post by geff82 »

First, really cool that you are trying to work on you. I am sure that path will lead you to something good.

Concerning your disinterest in people... approach everyone as if they were a teacher. Not only contentwise, but in any regard. Even people at the bottom of society can teach you something about their life by merely looking at them or by exactly analyzing how they talk. See human interaction as a way to learn and not primarily as some humility. Learning makes YOU better, which, in some way, caters to a narcissist trait.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#215

Post by munificent »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #113
JonathanMerklin wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, really trying hard not to word it in a standoffish way: what do you get out of a therapist that can't be obtained from thought or general conversation outside of therapy? I don't think a "brilliant rational mind" is a prerequisite for coming to the conclusion that you're spending money to lock someone in conversation with you - someone that would not associate with you otherwise. To me, the relations…

A therapist is trained to spot things you miss. It's like asking, "what does a junior engineer get out of being mentored by a senior engineer that they couldn't just figure out by coding or reading blogs?" A therapist brings things like context, breadth of knowledge, and honesty. I felt like the therapist wasn't incentivized to sugar coat things to spare my feelings, something close friends and family might do. I am…

If you think of a therapist as less "surgeon for the brain" who exists to fix issues and more like "personal trainer for the brain", then it makes more sense to have one long-term.

It's less about fixing things that are profoundly broken and more about incrementally trying to make the most of the brain you're given.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#216

Post by projektfu »

Narcissism is a popular armchair diagnosis these days but you haven't really listed anything that makes you abnormal. I don't know who you are but chances are you're not really in need of treatment.

So, if you feel that there are areas where you just want to improve how you interact with people, try ordinary coaching. You can learn how to become interested in what other people do. You can develop habits that demonstrate that you honestly care.

Find a good life coach, counselor or therapist :)

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#218

Post by djschulz »

Years of hardcore individual and group therapy in my 20s, 30s and 40s helped to dispel any lofty perceptions I had of my self. It was very painful at the time but necessary. I continue that program to this day with a loving wife who calls me out on my shit as needed.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#219

Post by munificent »

melbourne_mat wrote: post #114
ggambetta wrote: post #15

Seeing a therapist might be infinitely better than reading a book, and not just for narcissism. We're all broken in our own wonderful and unique ways. I've been seeing a therapist for 5 years now, and the positive impact this has had in my life and on my general self-awareness can't be overstated. As engineers and tech people we have one tool that has proven incredible useful in our careers: our brilliant rational mi…

I'm going to counter the "therapists are great" theme that I'm seeing here. I think they're a waste of money. Cognitive behavioural therapy is a great tool. With practise and courage you can use it to reform the way you think. It won't fix something like schizophrenia but it might be useful for a narcissist who wants to change.

> I think they're a waste of money.

This is a valid opinion, but it would be better presented with some evidence to support it.

When someone says "A therapist really helped me." then their opinion carries its own evidence. They are a living evidential proof of their claim. (At least, to the degree that you accept that the commenter is honest and able to correctly measure their own quality of life.)

But when you say "therapists are a waste of money", your claim shows only absence of evidence, not evidence of absense. It may be that therapists aren't good for you, or that you haven't had a good one, or simply that you have no experience with them at all.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#220

Post by epivosism »

Domenic_S wrote: post #209
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand, but the whole subtext is that he's taking responsibility, and not blaming other people, something narcissists can't do.

That's the trick: it seems that way, but really it's a trap/defense against change. Narcissists are very, very good at seeming to others like they want to fix something about themselves, all the while digging themselves in deeper because deep down they don't really think something is wrong. He says "I tend to judge situations only from my perspective" -- and then proceeds to write this very public post completely fro…

What would you have him do, though? Voluntarily posting about it to try to improve seems like the best choice. If he hadn't posted at all and just continued being a narcissist, that'd also have been wrong. It's not right to set up a judgement system where someone has no correct action at all.
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