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Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

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Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#162

I went down this rabbit hole a long time ago and saw a therapist about it. I would suggest you do the same. That said, they basically told me that if you're worried about being a narcissist or trying to change it then you probably aren't a candidate for NPD diagnosis. Simply put people with NPD don't even consider that they might be wrong or flawed. That doesn't mean you don't have something to fix, but it's worth se…

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Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#163

Seeing a therapist might be infinitely better than reading a book, and not just for narcissism. We're all broken in our own wonderful and unique ways. I've been seeing a therapist for 5 years now, and the positive impact this has had in my life and on my general self-awareness can't be overstated. As engineers and tech people we have one tool that has proven incredible useful in our careers: our brilliant rational mi…

People say this a lot, but it never seems very actionable. How do you do find someone good that you trust? How do you find someone worth the time? The couple of times I've tried to find someone you end up making a lot of unreturned phone calls. Maybe I have an unfairly negative impression of therapists - I both think that it's incredibly valuable to introspect and have someone smart and thoughtful to work things out…

"Find a therapist" is not vague or unactionable advice, any more than "find a doctor" or "find a mechanic" is vague or unactionable.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#164
post #141

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms: Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love Believes that he or she is “spe…

Quite to the contrary, it's often said that alcoholism is a self-diagnosed disease. Certainly combating it is much harder without that acknowledgement. Likewise, I can't imagine a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist berating someone in the same way you have for simply wondering if they have manifestations of negative social behavior. Surely many people would miss out on opportunities to reflect and change were they to take your advice.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#165
post #8

For book suggestions I would suggest the old classic: “How to Win Friends and Influence People” Talks about active listening, and remembering things about others. As for generally not being as narcissistic, I think you’re already on the right track. 90% of being aware of other people, is being aware that you’re sucking up the airtime. Conversations are dances, both parties need to be engaged

IMO it's really obvious when someone's applying the strategies in that book without addressing their underlying behavior. One of my bosses had the dark triad traits, and it was painfully obvious that he was following the book's advice to the letter. Referring to people by name often and the like doesn't mask narcissistic behavior, it just makes a narcissist appear dishonest.

Put another way: people are extremely good at detecting inauthenticity.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#166
post #126
post #89

Religion could help you here, especially Christianity, since a fundamental insight is, as GK Chesterton puts it: "What's wrong with the world? I am." Without realizing there is something fundamentally wrong with me, i.e. the narcissism aka pride, it is impossible to break free. This is the insight that allowed Dante to leave Hell in the Divine Comedy.

Oh yes. Believe in this thing that you don't believe in so that you can become a better person. Except that believing for that reason is simply telling yourself a lie. And professing faith based on a lie will make you a worse person. And yet this type of argument is often used by those who seek to spread the Gospel. See likewise Pascal's Wager. That said, there is no evidence that I am aware of for Christianity actua…

See the western civilization you live. Largely the product of Christianity.

OP can look into Christianity to see if they find it plausible. I am suggesting it is a good place to look, as the premise of Christianity is there is a greater reality than the self.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#167
Try this: go on a dating website, and say that you are looking for someone to help you listen to and connect to other people. Maybe someone out there will be willing to mentor you. Much more useful than reading is an actual face to face critique by someone who is there to watch how you interact.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#168
post #120

I wonder if improv classes might help? I've been taking improv recently and I've found it to be extremely interesting from the POV of learning to pay more attention to other people. The core to learning improv is learning how NOT to be the center of attention. Everything is about supporting your team-mates: you have to pay extremely close attention to what they are doing and look for ways to give them further opportu…

Improv is like an adult hack to learn teamwork skills if you never got serious about a team sport as a child. The idea of playing a role, using the tools available to your role to help make the other roles successful, and counting on teammates to do the same for you. Being part of something bigger than the sum of the parts, and being able to truly take vicarious satisfaction from the success of the whole as opposed to any individuals, especially oneself.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#169
If you suspect that you're a narcissist, then you probably aren't one.

True narcissists won't even have the thought cross their mind or see it as something to fix. They think they are perfect in every way. To admit to imperfection would shatter their sense of self and that is something they must protect at all costs. They can't see how their behavior affects others. They are God's gift to us in their minds.

You're probably just self-centered. Not quite the same as NPD.

Try these things:

* Don't like listening to people? Get over it, practice listening

* Judge situations from just your perspective? Just try to see it from another angle.

* Inflated ego? We all came screaming head first out of a vagina or yanked out of a cut womb. You're not special. We're all going to die.

* Take things too personally? Try meditating.

EDIT:

Been reading through the comments and most of you are uneducated about the true nature of narcissists or have never crossed paths with one in any meaningful way (luckily for you).

Here are the spark notes about narcissists:

The DSM-V defines narcissism as:

`A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:`

To be categorized as a narcissist you have to meet 5 of 9 traits defined here :

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.P...

* Narcissists aren't born, they are created and there is a strong link that shows it is a heritable characteristic learned in early adolescence.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3973692/

* Generally, it's either learned from a parent in the home or traumatic emotional abuse.

* Narcissists have a very fragile ego and are constantly protecting it, they simultaneously want your approval and despise you for their need for your approval.

* Narcissists cannot self reflect as part of a defense mechanism to their ego, they believe they are perfect in every way, and therefore do not need to change their behavior.

* They have their own world view and if you show them differently they will simply ignore it and subsequently you.

* Narcissists thrive on the attention and adoration of others, this can come from their children, co-workers, friends, family, lovers, really anyone. They thrive on both negative and positive attention. This is called narcissistic supply. Narcs need a constant supply to keep their egos inflated. It's like oxygen to them.

* They will utilize a variety of tactics to entangle new forms of supply and keep them confused and entrapped. These tactics include:

- Love bombing (Constant praise, stroking your ego, constant attention)

- Mirroring (You like snowboarding? I like snowboarding! you like video games? I like video games!)

- Projection (You're going to cheat/ steal/ lie, meanwhile they are doing exactly those things to you. They will accuse you of these things first to muddy the waters when you eventually catch on to their behavior)

- Word salads (complete nonsense, logical fallacies out of their mouths to confuse you when talking or arguing)

- Extreme mischaracterization or exaggeration of what you've said

- Moving goalposts (I'll start helping with chores when my minor injury heals when I'm less stressed when it's spring etc)

- Conditioning (Like pavlovian training: if you're in a good mood doing a certain activity they will start an argument to soil your association with that activity)

- Gaslighting (I didn't say I liked video games, you must have misunderstood me)

- Name calling and aggressive criticism (Usually disguised as a joke or with a "Just kidding!")

- Triangulation or Flying Monkeys (using a third party to torment you further)

- Discard /devaluation (Once you've caught onto them, or they've found a better source of supply you will be ignored or spoken about in condescending terms)

* Narcissists cannot truly generate happiness of their own, so they try to leech it from others and hate them for their ability to generate happiness

* Extended contact with a narcissist can lead to CPTSD

* Narcissists cannot change because they do not want to change since they see nothing wrong with their behavior.

In short, all of this advice to read a book, join a club, start a family, etc is useless for a narcissist. Also, narcissists are highly resistant to therapy. They rarely check themselves in and they only time they end up in front of a therapist is for something unrelated to their narcissism.

If you meet one run.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#170
For books I've always recommended in a broad scope of character building: How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie.

But that's just a book and its like just reading a book for programming. You have to find a way to put it in practise.

I firmly believe that every society needs to embody some type of short term service for youth to strip away the idea of individualism, and allow them to rebuild only after experiencing working and helping out others. Doesn't need to be the armed forces, just something to hammer into them that you need to work together and look after buddy.

For me I think joining the reserves at a young age (16) cured me of a lot of selfishness. That might be unrealistic to you but sports teams, volunteer groups (Rotary, Lions Club, heck even Toastmasters) help garner this dynamic.

Have you lived in a small community before? You might think you don't like people, but you might realize you don't like people in big cities/companies/stressful environments.

All the best

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