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China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

reuters.com

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Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#321

Post by dajohnson89 »

baybal2 wrote: post #246
echelon wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How stable is the power that Xi has consolidated? How would the party and the public respond if there were leaks about his private life and behavior? I wonder what his skeletons in the closet are... I've also wondered how receptive the Chinese people would be to a series of documentaries or dramas that point out the inequality and unfairness in their system. A film that highlights how the government treats humans and…

> How stable is the power that Xi has consolidated? Very stable. Basically nothing besides something coming from withing the party itself can shake him, and he took down all of those threats to him from within the party. Not even Mao ever managed to cleanse all of his detractors from the party up until his death. Saying this, you should not be confusing that "people are throwing looks into his back," and quiet whispe…

i watched the video game trailer and failed to see the connection

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#322

Post by bane »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #193
yorwba wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shortsighted politicians exist everywhere, but the political system determines what their short-term goals focus on. In a centralized top-down system like China's, politicians advance their career by currying favor with their superiors by demonstrating plan fulfillment, and if they fail they'll try to fake the numbers to make it look like they succeeded. This affects mostly nationally visible metrics like GDP, povert…

That's true, but my point is that the "Emperor is far away" problems can be found in any type of governing model. Some may limit it, but even then, there are tradeoffs. One advantage of a centralized top-down system is that when an issue becomes sufficiently prioritized at the top, everyone below falls in line. The primary advantage here is speed and the ability to see through long-term plans. You see this in China's…

You're getting knee-jerk downvotes, but I think your reply is more thoughtful than some are giving you credit for. My original comment more or less agrees with you. However, I'd also temper it by saying that one of the downsides of a highly central government is that it falls prey to the negatives of the "Eye of Sauron". This means that where the relatively few people at the top can focus, and for however long they can focus, incredible things can be accomplished -- sometimes far in excess of what might otherwise be expected.

But due to the lack of a distributed or delegated authority, it greatly limits how many important topics can be focused on at once as the apparatus of government is designed around pleasing the core power holders, who can only focus on a few things at a time. This results in massive efforts like raising armies or building spaceships or whatnot being possible, but efforts that aren't worth the time of the central power keepers (e.g. minding hobbits) fall entirely off the radar.

If the Chinese government can ever arrive at a good solution to local, delegated authority (and I'm not hopeful it will), these smaller issues can be attended to. But as a practical matter they simply get ignored until they become national problems with national priorities.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#323

Post by BurningFrog »

jdhn wrote: post #234
BurningFrog wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Californian, I would love if we were mismanaged in a way that produced excess housing!

If you love mismanagement that produces excess housing, you should move to Detroit.

You misunderstand.

I love California, and would like housing there.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#324

Post by bra4you »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #316
bra4you wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I tried to explain why here" Well, you failed. Interest rates are historically low. We have seen a gigantic amount of liquidity injected over the last decades. "The poor are much much more hurt by overly tight money." What is the most expensive acquisition in their life for the majority of the people? Real Estate. Prices are through the roof thanks to the central banks. Young people are just getting priced out of th…

Prices of houses may be high but affordability is not because of cheap financing. Payments could have been made lower with easier money and even cheaper financing. Asset prices are bounded by the cost of producing new houses and also, high house prices create good jobs for house builders.

"Prices of houses may be high but affordability is not because of cheap financing."

A 7 fig house still costs 7 figures. In many countries you can not lock in the interest rates for 30 years but they get re-adjusted after 10 or 15 years. Could be a bad awakening for some.

"Asset prices are bounded by the cost of producing new houses"

1. "asset prices" are not only houses. But also Stocks for example

2. The most expensive thing is most of the time not the house but the land. "Buy land, they stopped making it! - Mark Twain"

Read a few books about economics dude.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#325

Post by nate_meurer »

siracusa23 wrote: post #255
nate_meurer wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stongly disagree. The relevant (and enormous) difference is that Americans are empowered to learn of and discuss their sordid affairs, without fear of punishment by their government. Just like we're doing right now, with me using my real name. In contrast, people in countries like China and the old USSR are empowered only to learn of and share state-approved knowledge, in a state-approved manner. Stepping too far out…

Yes, we were afraid of repercussions, but "imprisonment or worse" seems like the same stereotype we had with Americans all walking with guns on the street like it's a western movie, smoking Malboro and listening to rock music. The repercussions were social mostly, your boss would not promote you anymore, your neighbours would avoid you. Only in cases of high-treason, such as Assange from WikiLeaks, you would get "imp…

> Only in cases of high-treason, such as Assange from WikiLeaks, you would get "imprisonment or worse".

So, "high-treason" must have included religious offenses, attempting to leave the USSR, independent journalism, cultural and literary nonconformism, activism of any almost any kind, and any other sort of activity deemed undesirable to the state. Is that right?

> And no, people did not learn through state-approved knowledge, we had conspiracy theories, we had friends, uncles and friends having friends working inside the government.

Conspiracy theories and rumors are not comparable to the robust freedom of expression we enjoy in the West -- a freedom that we take advantage of on this very forum, where we are free to share information and criticize our Western governments however we please, anonymously or not.

If you're interested in learning about the USSR's treatment of people who spoke against the state, the accounts of the dissidents themselves makes excellent reading. There are entire libraries dedicated to preserving the experience of people imprisoned and killed for crimes of expression in the USSR and its satellites, written in their own words.

I don't know if you really intended to compare the imprisonment and murder of people for crimes of expression, religion, or ethnicity under authoritarian states to the PC movement in the West, but if you are, I have to question whether you actually experienced the former.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#326

Post by HenryKissinger »

taiwanboy wrote: post #280
toyg wrote: post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

China is currently fighting 7 wars 1.) internal political war between xi jing ping of the old guards and the moderates. Check sinoinsider if you wish to know more. 2.) internal provincial wars with Tibet, Xinjiang, and Hong Kong. 3.) conflicts with immediate neighbors over the south sea and other illegitimate claims, including Vietnam, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Philippines. 4.) trade wars with South Korea, japan, US, an…

8.) They're in the beginning stage of a huge demographic bomb. China's birth rate is plunging rapidly, consequence of the (now defunct) one child policy and better standards of living. China's population is aging rapidly, and there is no immigration to sustain the labor pool, like in Western countries.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#327

Post by lbeltrame »

yibg wrote: post #247
lbeltrame wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, as far as the currently available information shows, at first the Party tried to keep things quiet, until they just couldn't. I have a hard time imagninig something like this happening in many Western countries. It might happen, but in my view it's far more unlikely.

At this point it’s undeniable that the government tried to keep things quiet in the beginning and that’s not a good thing. But slow reaction to new diseases isn’t uncommon. I recall when mad cow was going around a while ago the reaction in Canada was slow as well. The desire to down play things happen at multiple levels of an organization for all sorts of reasons. I’m not dismissing the initial attempt at cover up he…

Well, I wouldn't go it as far as saying "a big disaster", but I can say with confidence that a lot infections (and possibly deaths) could have been spared if the Party had chosen not to put its head in the sand.

(Disclaimer: hindsight is 20/20, of course)

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#328

Post by leftyted »

grecy wrote: post #320
leftyted wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between "manufacture of consent" type propaganda, in which the citizenry is complicit in its own indoctrination, and Soviet-style propaganda where there was no free press and people were killed and jailed for criticizing the government. Wondering aloud if the Soviet system might not be better "because at least people were aware of it" is shocking and cruel.

You misunderstood. I'm not saying the Soviet system was better or anything like that. I'm saying it's interesting to realize that everyone on all sides are fed propaganda. As 'siracusa23' points out, he is very aware that both Americans and Soviets continue to be fed propaganda. What I said was that today , the vast majority of Americans have no idea they are constantly being fed propaganda, and they openly take offe…

The reason why Americans deny that they are fed propaganda is because the kind of propaganda that exists in America is subtle. It doesn't involve jailing or killing dissidents. Your post (and the parent post) omitted that distinction. My argument is that this distinction matters.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#329

Post by markus_zhang »

koheripbal wrote: post #278
mark_l_watson wrote: post #222

My wife asked me at breakfast why the new virus is such a big deal: hundreds dying vs. the 5K to 10K babies and infants who die everyday in the world from dehydration and/or starvation. My response was exponential growth of viruses and mutation into something very deadly. China is taking the outbreak seriously, locking down large and high population regions. I wondered if some of that is PR since after a previous out…

The most important thing to remember here is that we have ZERO idea how many people are truly infected in China. The Chinese gov't is publishing totally unreliable numbers on "confirmed". ...but the fact that confirmed cases are popping up all around the world, there is ZERO chance that the true number of infected people is 15,000 in China. That just doesn't make sense statistically.

However that's the only number you have.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#330

Post by dragonwriter »

leftyted wrote: post #260
grecy wrote: post #183

[flagged]

There's a huge difference between "manufacture of consent" type propaganda, in which the citizenry is complicit in its own indoctrination, and Soviet-style propaganda where there was no free press and people were killed and jailed for criticizing the government. Wondering aloud if the Soviet system might not be better "because at least people were aware of it" is shocking and cruel.

> There's a huge difference between "manufacture of consent" type propaganda, in which the citizenry is complicit in its own indoctrination

“manfactured consent” is top-down, elite-driven propaganda that the general citizenry isn't any more complicit in than is the case with authoritarian propaganda.

It's different than authoritarian propaganda in that it isn't centrally directed by the state, per se, (on the other hand since it is elite-directed by the same elites to whom the state apparatua is subservient, that difference is less significant than it might appear at first.)

It's also different in that while there is a significant degree of commonality, the elites that it serves have competing interests which results in diversity and conflicts in the propaganda.

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