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China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

reuters.com

191–200 of 560 posts

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#191

I have warned many times that CCP is an evil regime and will cause big disaster for whole human society. Whoever in the free world still trying to make some profits collaborating with CCP, just remember: dance with the devil, just wait for the music to stop.

Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News, and especially not politically inflammatory ones on extremely repetitive topics.

We've had to ask you this before.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#192
post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

My initial reaction to the article was that it doesn't sound like the cash injection has much to do with the corona virus. Isn't the reaction to the virus somewhat overblown?

> adding the total liquidity in the banking system will be 900 billion yuan higher than the same period in 2019 after the injection

In other words, 300 billion yuan less without the cash injection. I may be wrong, as I don't see the reaction to the outbreak first hand, but it sounds like this is not just about the virus.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#193
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a Chinese saying that's apt here; "山高皇帝远" which literally translates into "mountains are high, the emperor is far away." However, I disagree that this is solely unique to China. You see it in the west too. The water crisis in Flint, MI springs to mind.

Shortsighted politicians exist everywhere, but the political system determines what their short-term goals focus on. In a centralized top-down system like China's, politicians advance their career by currying favor with their superiors by demonstrating plan fulfillment, and if they fail they'll try to fake the numbers to make it look like they succeeded. This affects mostly nationally visible metrics like GDP, povert…

That's true, but my point is that the "Emperor is far away" problems can be found in any type of governing model. Some may limit it, but even then, there are tradeoffs.

One advantage of a centralized top-down system is that when an issue becomes sufficiently prioritized at the top, everyone below falls in line. The primary advantage here is speed and the ability to see through long-term plans. You see this in China's rapid rise in certain industries/technologies, and of course, in their response to the 2019-nCoV epidemic.

> In a localized bottom-up system, politicians advance their career by currying favor with voters by distributing handouts, like farming subsidies, tax cuts or artificially low prices.

I agree with this statement, generally, but there are many exceptions. Speaking only about politicians the US, at a certain level, further career advancement is also very dependent on currying favor with superiors (sometimes, even more so than currying favor with constituents, especially if one has national and not just local ambitions). This is equally true at the national level--see: the internal politicking within the DNC and RNC in terms of fundraising, toeing the party line, etc. to receive endorsement and campaign funds--as it is at the local level--see: "machine" politics like in Chicago, where advancement is equally, if not more, predicated on currying favor with your local party leadership and senior city politicians than it is with voters. Or course, this problem (in the US, at least) might also just be the results of our two-party dominated system, where party-endorsements trumps almost everything else when it comes to getting votes. To your point though, this can be overcome if you curry enough favor with the local voters (Trump himself vis-a-vis the RNC is a good example of this).

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPR reporting from last night say's that HK is dealing with nearly 700 suspected cases. https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1223743600456060928

Daily reminder that the confirmed cases are limited by the capacity to confirm cases , not by the actual contagion .

The estimate of likely infected people in China was somewhere between 37k and 130k as of January 25, and it is expected that the number of infected people will double roughly every six days, so assuming there has been no appreciable change to the pattern of spread, we can maybe back-of-the-napkin that somewhere around 75,000-280,000 people are probably infected.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. Leaving aside the offensive comparison of the US to the USSR, you overlook that after GWB, we doubled down on the “US consensus” by electing Barack “drone strike” Obama. (I think Obama was a great President, but he was also very little different than George Bush except in his oration.)

At least Obama reported the number of casualties of drone strikes, a rule which the current president got rid of via an executive order.

Lies to your face are preferable to lies of omission?

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#196
post #183

[flagged]

Stongly disagree. The relevant (and enormous) difference is that Americans are empowered to learn of and discuss their sordid affairs, without fear of punishment by their government. Just like we're doing right now, with me using my real name.

In contrast, people in countries like China and the old USSR are empowered only to learn of and share state-approved knowledge, in a state-approved manner. Stepping too far outside these boundaries often leads to imprisonment or worse.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#197
post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

The comparison to 80s/late-90s USSR is poor. I think this epidemic is showing the opposite, at least in terms of technical competence. The response from the central authorities has been massive and relatively well executed. The comparison is also off because the day-to-day living situation on the ground (for the average citizen) is totally different from _both_ a political and economic perspective.

The response might not have needed to be as massive if the initial reaction of the Chinese authorities hadn't been to send the police after the doctors who discovered the problem[1] and try to hush it up.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/asia/china-coronavi...

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#198
post #183

[flagged]

I lived under the USSR, American and European propaganda machine, they are all the same. You get tired of them as you get to my age.

I'm pretty sure that rayiner's comment exists mirrored on a random Chinese forum. Someone being offended by a comparison of China and US (implying China is better). We're all the same.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#199
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe outside of China we see it as "ruled by fear", but that's really not the case in China, at least for the majority: China doesn't try to make it's citizens afraid. Quite the opposite. Their modus operandi is "move along, nothing to see here, everything is fine." Indeed, that was their initial message to the public for this virus. So, the problem and partial cause of panic is when there is a problem that is very…

China is a place where you can be locked to a chair and interrogated by police for social media comments critical of the state. Don't try to tell me it isn't a government ruled through fear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6uy12RpqQc

That’s like saying Americans are in fear of being water boarded by the authorities.

Chinese people in China are not afraid of the cops. If you see how Chinese people interact with cops, I bet you would be surprised.

I regularly see people yelling and screaming at them, and the Chinese cops will still try to diffuse the situation.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#200
post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

The comparison to 80s/late-90s USSR is poor. I think this epidemic is showing the opposite, at least in terms of technical competence. The response from the central authorities has been massive and relatively well executed. The comparison is also off because the day-to-day living situation on the ground (for the average citizen) is totally different from _both_ a political and economic perspective.

There’s no question that China does not have many of the catastrophic dysfunctions seen in the USSR. There did seem to be some attempt at a coverup or miscommunication early on, which no doubt made things much worse - but the response since has been at a level that would be quite hard to achieve in most other countries. This is an example of a case where centralized control really shines.
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