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Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

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Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#111

Post by asdff »

zozbot234 wrote: post #62
yters wrote: post #51

What does poverty mean in our world? I would think the poorest person in any western nation has more money and access to more resources than pretty much anyone in prior history. Also goes for many developing nations, too. Is there something else going on with poverty besides only amount of money on hand?

Relative poverty is really a proxy for social exclusion/marginalization. You don't solve "poverty" by giving people more money, you solve it by strenghtening local communities, building solid institutions and enhancing social capital. This is the best foundation for solid middle-class values, which in turn are the catalyst for self-sustaining growth in incomes. (Of course meaning "poverty" in this relative sense, as…

What does this mean in practice? In Los Angeles, local communities are some of the strongest in the world. No one would say that poverty is solved, this city is known as the city of the working poor.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#112

Post by scrollbar »

cocoa19 wrote: post #96
scrollbar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can rationally hold that belief. You have different priors about how society and people work than I do, very different. Go ahead and try to come up with reasons parent and I are rational, instead of assuming the worst and belittling others' thought processes. Maybe you'll learn something.

Please don't attack the man, attack the argument. Writing snarky remarks is uncalled for and not pleasant to read on this forum.

This person's comment immediately attacks the parent for being irrational - that is, putting the parent down. Attacking the person, not the argument.

That's what I call out and encourage them and others to slow down and consider peoples' humanity.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#113

Post by sershe »

Spooky23 wrote: post #66
lopmotr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't correct the problems caused by making the worse choice of having children with that unsuitable parent in the first place.

What awful point of view. What's the consequence for being deemed unsuitable? Who determines that you are unworthy of reproduction? What other fundamental rights should unsuitable people be deprived of?

How is having children a fundamental right? It's a hobby. In fact, in this case I'd consider it worse than many other hobbies because you are making another person, statistically speaking, suffer because you want to have a pet project that you cannot afford.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#114

Post by saf5345throw »

I never understood the hate on people becoming parents before they are financially ready. There is a reason why the demographic shift is happening. I was born when my mom was in her late 30s. My grandmother died in her 80s before I even hit 18. How exactly are we supposed to maintain a stable population in these circumstances? Having children suddenly became unreasonably expensive but yet we pretend as if the parents are the ones who did something wrong if they have children before their 40s. The situation is basically a reverse tragedy of the commons. The individual is bearing the entire cost of having children but then gets blamed despite the fact that the public benefits from a stable population.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#115

Post by AstralStorm »

sansnomme wrote: post #100
xrd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question for you: are you doing that? If not, why not? If so, can you share the successes and failures? I agree with you 100%.

Make contraception as common and mandatory as school vaccination programs. Vasagel exists for males (and more technologies will show up down the line) and female contraception is relatively mature. Have the implants tied to RFID with expiry dates signed by manufacturers. Verifiable chain of trust. Make having babies similar to driving licenses. Whitelisting instead of trying to prevent it from occuring after the fact…

What will you do when someone eventually breaks the law?

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#116

Post by AstralStorm »

Justsignedup wrote: post #41
mjevans wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A systemic answer is required to improve this case. I very much doubt there is any single magic bullet thing that will make the problem better.

There is one: Treat every child in poverty as a societal responsibility. Everything will stem from there. a.k.a. start with societal empathy.

By everything you mean solutions such as what? State paid orphanages? Free best education? Then free healthcare on top of that right? Let's continue with cheap and nutritious enough free food, likewise housing.

Where will you find enough qualified teachers and nursing staff as the parents are obviously unsuitable? Cooks? Farmers? State would literally have to order at least some of those people to take such jobs.

Maximum of factor is perhaps 10 per person, likely much less than that to provide proper quality. Unless you will invest heavily in teaching and nursing staff.

It is an interesting model of a society halfway ran like military. Ultimately not too bad and orderly, but the problems of allocation are hard to solve and corruption is still likely.

The old adage is that the more you want to control, the more you have to control. (Providing strong incentives might be enough.)

Mind you EU socialdemocratic model is only halfway there, and thus limited in results. (Orphanages and nursing are too few, poor people are not relieved off parenthood. Free housing and food is very limited using merit as allocation through social services.)

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#117

Post by AstralStorm »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #27
lopmotr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't correct the problems caused by making the worse choice of having children with that unsuitable parent in the first place.

It's hard to impossible to figure out the "suitability" of a person for something until they actually did that thing, in this case become a parent. Just like dating and marriage can be very different. Hindsight is 20/20.

Come on, you can easily determine most of the time that a person is too poor to have a kid. (The other cases are usually an exception.)

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#118

Post by pinkfoot »

Justsignedup wrote: post #41
mjevans wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A systemic answer is required to improve this case. I very much doubt there is any single magic bullet thing that will make the problem better.

There is one: Treat every child in poverty as a societal responsibility. Everything will stem from there. a.k.a. start with societal empathy.

i.e. the tax payer's responsibility?

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#119

Post by imtringued »

sershe wrote: post #113
Spooky23 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What awful point of view. What's the consequence for being deemed unsuitable? Who determines that you are unworthy of reproduction? What other fundamental rights should unsuitable people be deprived of?

How is having children a fundamental right? It's a hobby. In fact, in this case I'd consider it worse than many other hobbies because you are making another person, statistically speaking, suffer because you want to have a pet project that you cannot afford.

You're just making things up. Once that child grows up it's no longer a "pet project" and contributes to the continued existence of society. Spending resources on the child is an investment into the future productivity of that child when it enters the workforce. The idea that such a logical investment is considered uneconomical is a fatal flaw in modern society.

When you consider that the type of family (highly educated) that can actually afford to have children is deciding against having children then your proposal to consider every child as a hobby is just plain stupid. Who's going to have children then? Not the upper class? not the middle class? Not the poor? Nobody?

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#120

Post by dennis_jeeves »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #27
lopmotr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't correct the problems caused by making the worse choice of having children with that unsuitable parent in the first place.

It's hard to impossible to figure out the "suitability" of a person for something until they actually did that thing, in this case become a parent. Just like dating and marriage can be very different. Hindsight is 20/20.

PavlovsCat, mind sending me an email? Email on my profile.
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