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Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

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Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#21

Post by tropo »

wonderwonder wrote: post #4
empath75 wrote: post #2

On some level you almost want to say "duh.", but having grown up in a very lower-middle class household and being on the high side of middle class now, the difference in how I was raised and how my kids are being raised is fairly vast. I'm sometimes jealous of how easy my kids have it compared to me, to be honest. I can only imagine where i'd be now if I had parents who were able to provide the resources that I can g…

absolutely, same boat. I have to think that my kids just not having to listen to their parents constantly fight about money like I did has to go a long way. Going to the store with friends and your parents have to pay with food stamps carries a certain stigma. I had good parents who always worked hard (not necessarily smart) and did the best they could for us, so I have no other complaints but I was definitely very a…

Fighting over money is because of personality and disagreement, not the amount of money. You can fight at any level of wealth.

For the rich, spouses can fight over the choice between buying a pro sports team and buying a private island, or between buying a customized 747-8 and buying a made-to-order yacht with helipad.

For the poor, spouses can be in full agreement that dinner is soup made with ketchup packets, slugs, and dandelions.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#22

Post by mynameishere »

that are more efficient at reducing poverty...an unconditional cash allowance for households with children.

The opposite--a cash allowance for poor people who agree to be sterilized--would also reduce poverty, and a single generation of such payments would have a lot of staying power. Now, I wouldn't expect the author of the article to desire such a policy, but it would work if all they are trying to do is reduce poverty.

(Of course, paying poor people to have kids would, in fact, greatly expand poverty forever and ever, but that's another matter. The authors, of course, are in no way actually interested in improving society.)

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#23

Post by lopmotr »

nomel wrote: post #6
altacc wrote: post #3

In discussions about low income families I often see somebody comment along the lines of blaming the parents for making bad choices and choosing to have children they couldn't afford/care for/want. This is used as a reason not to provide any social support to those families as they see it as rewarding bad behaviour. But these children didn't make those choices and they now exist in their circumstances through no faul…

> for making bad choices and choosing to have children they couldn't afford/care for/want Also, this belittles the cases where one parent was making a great choice, by leaving the other.

That doesn't correct the problems caused by making the worse choice of having children with that unsuitable parent in the first place.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#24

Post by lazyasciiart »

mynameishere wrote: post #22

that are more efficient at reducing poverty...an unconditional cash allowance for households with children. The opposite--a cash allowance for poor people who agree to be sterilized--would also reduce poverty, and a single generation of such payments would have a lot of staying power. Now, I wouldn't expect the author of the article to desire such a policy, but it would work if all they are trying to do is reduce pov…

What you say is (a) not backed by evidence and (b) given the correlation between race and poverty in the US, would have an incredibly racist outcome.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#25

Post by edmundsauto »

lopmotr wrote: post #23
nomel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for making bad choices and choosing to have children they couldn't afford/care for/want Also, this belittles the cases where one parent was making a great choice, by leaving the other.

That doesn't correct the problems caused by making the worse choice of having children with that unsuitable parent in the first place.

What could possibly correct that mistake?

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#26

Post by Mikeb85 »

mc32 wrote: post #8
empath75 wrote: post #2

On some level you almost want to say "duh.", but having grown up in a very lower-middle class household and being on the high side of middle class now, the difference in how I was raised and how my kids are being raised is fairly vast. I'm sometimes jealous of how easy my kids have it compared to me, to be honest. I can only imagine where i'd be now if I had parents who were able to provide the resources that I can g…

I agree with you but it’s more complicated. Not all kids want to grow up and be something. There used to be an avenue (future) for those kids. I don’t think that exists much any more. What I mean is a blue collar family could provide enough to produce another content blue collar worker. If you graduated high school today to be a content blue collar worker your options are kind of limited. I think some of this structu…

Yup. Both Bernie and Trump came up because of a dissatisfaction with the status quo amongst blue collar workers (Trump's slogan definitely conjures up images of a time when blue collar workers had relatively comfortable lives).

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#27

Post by PavlovsCat »

lopmotr wrote: post #23
nomel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for making bad choices and choosing to have children they couldn't afford/care for/want Also, this belittles the cases where one parent was making a great choice, by leaving the other.

That doesn't correct the problems caused by making the worse choice of having children with that unsuitable parent in the first place.

It's hard to impossible to figure out the "suitability" of a person for something until they actually did that thing, in this case become a parent. Just like dating and marriage can be very different. Hindsight is 20/20.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#28

Post by ben_w »

mech1234 wrote: post #9
altacc wrote: post #3

In discussions about low income families I often see somebody comment along the lines of blaming the parents for making bad choices and choosing to have children they couldn't afford/care for/want. This is used as a reason not to provide any social support to those families as they see it as rewarding bad behaviour. But these children didn't make those choices and they now exist in their circumstances through no faul…

What programs tackle child poverty?

I’m not sure which country you’re in, but I would argue a significant part of our socioeconomic structure is aimed at that, and has been since whenever schooling became mandatory.

It’s not perfect, and I don’t think “fix poverty” is necessarily main reason for the plans, but the effect has been to reduce it greatly compared to bygone times.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#29

Post by Eylandos »

mynameishere wrote: post #22

that are more efficient at reducing poverty...an unconditional cash allowance for households with children. The opposite--a cash allowance for poor people who agree to be sterilized--would also reduce poverty, and a single generation of such payments would have a lot of staying power. Now, I wouldn't expect the author of the article to desire such a policy, but it would work if all they are trying to do is reduce pov…

Explain to me how sterilizing someone would reduce poverty? The children of said sterilized person is still living in abysmal conditions and has minute chance of climbing out of it. Do we continue to sterilize or do we educated and push for better social programs for these people?

This also doesn't help the population decline we are facing and so it is complete nonsense.

Re: Poverty hurts children in ways we're beginning to understand

#30

Post by lopmotr »

wonderwonder wrote: post #4
empath75 wrote: post #2

On some level you almost want to say "duh.", but having grown up in a very lower-middle class household and being on the high side of middle class now, the difference in how I was raised and how my kids are being raised is fairly vast. I'm sometimes jealous of how easy my kids have it compared to me, to be honest. I can only imagine where i'd be now if I had parents who were able to provide the resources that I can g…

absolutely, same boat. I have to think that my kids just not having to listen to their parents constantly fight about money like I did has to go a long way. Going to the store with friends and your parents have to pay with food stamps carries a certain stigma. I had good parents who always worked hard (not necessarily smart) and did the best they could for us, so I have no other complaints but I was definitely very a…

Why were they fighting if they were good parents? My parents were poor but didn't fight. They just didn't buy much and they both accepted that and tried hard to improve things.
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