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How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

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Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#161

Post by ldoughty »

beerandt wrote: post #146
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

If I'm passing at 5 over the limit, I'm still passing. I waited my turn. Not my fault I don't want to go 20+ over.

I'll move back when the passed car is in my rear view. Oh, you really to ride my rear, and pay me on the right? Will Joe we have a problem because I'm happy merged into the right line and you're on my as, and now you're 3 feet from both me and the car were passing.

That's what I got from this comment... Just forget encourages already aggressive driving.

Of course, some people do not pass, and that is frustrating.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#162

Post by [deleted] »

nitwit005 wrote: post #133
rahimnathwani wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

California has a lower speed limit of 55 mph for trucks: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... This means that they generally stay in the rightmost lane, as slower traffic is supposed to keep right.

[deleted]

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#163

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #144
jibe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a sec, you drive on the opposite side of the road in the UK, so the advice to stay in the left lane except for overtaking is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right, or out of the left lane except when passing.

"is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right" Yeah, but the advice in the California DMV handbook is to stay in the middle , not the right. The difference is that, in the UK, the middle lane is explicitly only for overtaking. If you're going the same speed as the cars in the left lane, you're not overtaking, so you shouldn't be in the middle lane. California's guidance is directly contrary to this.

So wait, in a 3+ lane setup in the UK, both the middle lane and the rightmost are only for passing? That seems weird to me.

Reason for the CA rules is that, in the US, the rightmost lane is where all the entrance and exit ramps are, so you often have people speeding up or slowing down as they enter and exit. Rather than have to do a ton of lane changes to pass people as they merge on, the advice to stay in the middle lane if you just want to stay a constant speed is so you don't have to deal as much with people entering and exiting your lane.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#164

Post by burlesona »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #87

Is there a Primer / tldr for Strong Towns? I kind of get the basic idea (maintaining town infrastructure sometimes exceeds revenue) but I was looking for "start here" but don't seem to be able to find it

If you're genuinely interested, the recently published book "Strong Towns" is the best possible primer. It's not long, and covers the core ideas behind the movement in enough detail to understand how it all hangs together.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#165

Post by grifball »

briffle wrote: post #156
rahimnathwani wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

Oregon has a law that if you have 5 or more vehicles behind you, you must let them pass. It's more for the highways, not the freeway, but I haven't seen it enforced in many, many years

Do you have a link? All I could find is this:

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.425

Not doubting you, just wanna know.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#166

Post by rahimnathwani »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #163
rahimnathwani wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right" Yeah, but the advice in the California DMV handbook is to stay in the middle , not the right. The difference is that, in the UK, the middle lane is explicitly only for overtaking. If you're going the same speed as the cars in the left lane, you're not overtaking, so you shouldn't be in the middle lane. California's guidance is directly contrary to this.

So wait, in a 3+ lane setup in the UK, both the middle lane and the rightmost are only for passing? That seems weird to me. Reason for the CA rules is that, in the US, the rightmost lane is where all the entrance and exit ramps are, so you often have people speeding up or slowing down as they enter and exit. Rather than have to do a ton of lane changes to pass people as they merge on, the advice to stay in the middle…

Yes, the UK highway code rule 264 says:

"You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past."

When I learned to drive (many years ago), the guidance was more specific: the middle lane for overtaking a vehicle, and the right-most lane for overtaking multiple vehicles.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#167

Post by cortesoft »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #117
shaftway wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels pretty legit to me. I don't remember reading that, but when I drive a car and I've got more than 2 lanes to choose from, I usually end up in the middle. The right lane always has people merging, either to enter or exit, or trucks lumbering along at 45. The left lane always has someone wanting to do 90 in a 55. Middle is the smoothest, from a traffic flow perspective. On a motorcycle it's all about riding b…

"The right lane always has people merging, either to enter or exit, or trucks lumbering along at 45." Interesting perspective. I feel a little differently: - cars meeting to enter shouldn't affect you, because it's their responsibility to get to the right speed and time their entry to a gap; an entering car should never cause you to need to change speed or direction - an exiting car shouldn't affect you, because ther…

What is this ‘gap’ you speak of? We don’t have those here in LA.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#168

Post by bartread »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #163
rahimnathwani wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"is the equivalent of the advice here to stay to the right" Yeah, but the advice in the California DMV handbook is to stay in the middle , not the right. The difference is that, in the UK, the middle lane is explicitly only for overtaking. If you're going the same speed as the cars in the left lane, you're not overtaking, so you shouldn't be in the middle lane. California's guidance is directly contrary to this.

So wait, in a 3+ lane setup in the UK, both the middle lane and the rightmost are only for passing? That seems weird to me. Reason for the CA rules is that, in the US, the rightmost lane is where all the entrance and exit ramps are, so you often have people speeding up or slowing down as they enter and exit. Rather than have to do a ton of lane changes to pass people as they merge on, the advice to stay in the middle…

UK motorway junctions are all equipped with long sliproads. Generally you're supposed to do all your accelerating or braking on the sliproad when you join or leave the motorway, although traffic conditions can obviously prevent this.

With that said, in free-flowing traffic, it can be incredibly dangerous when people fail to follow this protocol, and I often wish there was more enforcement.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#169

Post by nightfly »

jedberg wrote: post #30
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

I know lots of car free people in the city who just rent a car for weekend trips. Still cheaper than owning a car.

Living car-free for about 5 years I _dreaded_ whenever I'd need to rent a car. Cars that were good enough for rural driving were $$$ and often not available, so I was stuck with super compact cars for $$. Plus the whole experience of renting cars is awful.

And that was with renting a car ~3 times per year. If I wanted even monthly trips it would have been cheaper to buy a car and park it the rest of the time.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#170

Post by davidw »

ummonk wrote: post #138
davidw wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't, on a per acre basis. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/2/1/the-surprising-...

The discussion was about per-person costs, so per-acre revenues are irrelevant.

You can have cities configured to have more or less people per acre.

It turns out that having more of them per acre is more cost effective.

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