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How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

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Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#81

Post by jhloa2 »

lukasm wrote: post #48
dillonmckay wrote: post #29

Are there any sustainable road construction technologies and materials that do not rely on petrochemicals?

Concrete is pretty much the only alternative that can handle 40+ tonnes trucks and be cost effective. It will last longer, but it's more expensive to build - could be cheaper on the long run. You get a bit more tire noise and less traction than on the asphalt.

Freeze/thaw cycles seem to absolutely destroy the few segments of concrete roads we have around here. They don't seem to last more than 2 winters.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#82

Post by inferiorhuman »

rayiner wrote: post #27
ryanar wrote: post #2

I feel like I am missing something here, a mile of road in a rural area costs $1,500,000 to reconstruct? How do small towns afford to maintain their roads?? Perhaps there are many costs that don't inflate as the number of miles increases, like the equipment needed to break down and repave the roads?

The relevant number here is the cost to repave, not reconstruct, which is about $330,000-$350,000 per mile for a minor arterial road in a rural or urban area. As to how small towns afford it--you don't repave that often, and you focus efforts on what to repave. For example, Cedar Rapids, Iowa calculated it would cost $500 million over 10 years to repave everything that needs to be repaved: https://www.kcrg.com/conten…

Obviously this is a very back-of-the-napkin calculation, but it puts things into perspective.

You're comparing an all-inclusive capital budget versus simply repaving roads. How much does DC Metro spend on track maintenance annually? How much does Cedar Rapids spend on lighting and signage?

How much do Cedar Rapids residents spend on their cars? The average used car payment runs in excess of $4,800 annually. New cars run around a hundred or so bucks a month more.

The DC metro is a bit of an odd duck since a large chunk of its users don't actually live in DC. The Census Dept. puts metro ridership at about 21% of all commuters commuting into DC, and overall about 34% of all DC residents use public transit (of all modes) as their primary means of transportation.

So even though you're including the cost of things like stations and vehicles, I think the overall cost is much closer (if not slanted in favor of transit) than you're letting on. That said, rail is typically one of the most expensive modes of public transit.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#83

Post by einpoklum »

MiracleUser wrote: post #65
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of rail is pretty good when you consider the capacity. That single rail line is replacing at least 6 lanes of highway and would get people to their destination safer and faster with less air pollution which is a major issue they are trying to tackle.

(ime) Trains only get you to your destination faster if your destination is a train station

I take it you live in the US? :-(

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#84

Post by 0x262d »

geddy wrote: post #75
dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

Lots of shade thrown towards people living in suburbia on here. Maybe not everyone wants to live in a (rented) closet sized apartment in a major city, complete with all the noise pollution, actual pollution, crime rates, and a lingering piss-smell 24/7, and all for the low price of _more than owning a house_?

well, people in suburbia get their infrastructure subsidized by everyone and in addition are destroying the planet, people in cities are paying artificially super-high rent to the landowning class. it seems like we could solve both these problems at the same time and change the value proposition here.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#85

Post by rahimnathwani »

slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook:

"If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving."

When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#86

Post by rayiner »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #82
rayiner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relevant number here is the cost to repave, not reconstruct, which is about $330,000-$350,000 per mile for a minor arterial road in a rural or urban area. As to how small towns afford it--you don't repave that often, and you focus efforts on what to repave. For example, Cedar Rapids, Iowa calculated it would cost $500 million over 10 years to repave everything that needs to be repaved: https://www.kcrg.com/conten…

Obviously this is a very back-of-the-napkin calculation, but it puts things into perspective. You're comparing an all-inclusive capital budget versus simply repaving roads. How much does DC Metro spend on track maintenance annually? How much does Cedar Rapids spend on lighting and signage? How much do Cedar Rapids residents spend on their cars? The average used car payment runs in excess of $4,800 annually. New cars…

Good point--I forgot WMATA is in the middle of major rail car purchases. The 6-year plan for rail systems, track rehabilitation, and stations is $600 million annually. I've updated my numbers above accordingly.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#88

Post by nemo44x »

markbnj wrote: post #46
WhompingWindows wrote: post #25

Are expensive roads really needed? What if we see a gradual decline in roadway expenditures in the USA, transitioning our economy to involve less driving and more work from home, deliveries via drone/efficient vehicle, promote self-sufficiency, not to mention biking, walking, trains, etc...my point is maybe we won't need/use roads as much as we do now. One would hope so, but it seems our VMT is going up over time whi…

There are roads in our county in New Jersey that have been transitioned from paved back to gravel, presumably based on usage and the anticipated savings from maintaining gravel over asphalt. I'm not a civil engineer and I don't know what all the tradeoffs are, but it seems to me that we're either going to have to admit we can't afford so much paving, or we're going to have to agree to pay higher taxes.

What’s interesting about this is NJ is the most densely populated state and has a high income level generally speaking. And some of the highest taxes in the country, especially property tax.

I suspect NJ loses a lot of tax dollars from commuters that work in NYC or Philadelphia and pay income tax in those states.

Regardless the state brings in a lot of revenue. I suspect the pension obligations are the real killer here.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#89

Post by redis_mlc »

ip26 wrote: post #53
burfog wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With property lines being about 100 feet apart, that comes to 100 houses. It's just $15,000 per house. The road should last 50 years without heavy truck traffic, making it $3000 per year per house.

$3000 per year per house In other words completely out of reach of the kind of town we're talking about?

In other words, a complete change of the town council in the next election. :)

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#90

Post by skybrian »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #85
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

I was surprised to read this in the California DMV driver handbook: "If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving." When I learned to drive (in the UK), the official guidance was to stay in the left-most lane except when overtaking. And then, after overtaking, to immediately return to the left lane.

That's still mostly true in the US for the more rural areas. Interstate highways often have two lanes in each direction.

For denser areas with multilane highways that are entirely in use, the best you can say is that the people in the passing lane probably want to go faster. :-)

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