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Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

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Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#91

Post by lopmotr »

kitteh wrote: post #82

Turkey is an interesting country to deal with. For example let's say you are a hosting company in the US and one of your customers is rebroadcasting Turkey television. A turkey govt agency would reach out to you and ask that you terminate that customer. If you refused, they go to the domestic incumbent Telecom (Turk Telecom) and null route your entire company ip addr space. Basically all of turkey won't be able to hi…

To be honest, that sounds like the reasonable and fair thing to do when a foreign company is violating your laws on the internet. First tell them to stop, then block them. Not every country has this "safe harbor" concept that the US does, so you may have to take responsibility for the content you host if you want access to those markets.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#92

Post by AnotherGoodName »

milankragujevic wrote: post #67

Wikipedia is down for me today, as well as a large part of Europe. Their tweet: https://twitter.com/Wikipedia/status/1221513346781982722 Could it be the Turkish regime DDoS-ing their servers?

Probably an accidental DDoS.

Deny a whole country for more than 2 years then allow them to view the site. Suddenly you have 80+ million people all trying to catch up.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#93

Post by majewsky »

jammygit wrote: post #89
muznar wrote: post #54

I always wonder what the real effects of these kind of blocks. For even average users of the internet, it was easy to overcome this block by just putting a "0" in front of the domain name. 0wikipedia.org is a clone of wikipedia and it was accessible. WHOIS search shows 0wikipedia domain name was created on 4 May 2017, just five days after the block. I am a Turkish grad student in the US. Whenever I visited Turkey, I…

Imagine the near future when governments become more technically adept and those holes get plugged. These stories are scariest because they utterly prove how eager governments are to control access to information and communications. Same thing with DRM - its scariest because one day it will work

> Same thing with DRM - its scariest because one day it will work.

If corps really needed DRM to work well, it would work well already. The reason that it doesn't is that there is no business case:

1. The music industry has mostly (heavy emphasis on "mostly") woken up to the fact that DRM does not stop piracy. Only a good user experience stops privacy. Hence why piracy stopped being a big problem once streaming services like Spotify became available.

2. The movie and game industry only rely on DRM protecting the initial wave of sales right after the initial release. When the DRM of a AAA game gets cracked 90 days after release (as is usual for Denuvo afaik), it doesn't matter much because 95% of sales are already done at this point. Same for movies. The long tail is impacted a bit by the movie or game being available on piracy sites, but most customers still go through the official sales/streaming channels unless they're absolutely atrocious.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#94

Post by kitteh »

lopmotr wrote: post #91
kitteh wrote: post #82

Turkey is an interesting country to deal with. For example let's say you are a hosting company in the US and one of your customers is rebroadcasting Turkey television. A turkey govt agency would reach out to you and ask that you terminate that customer. If you refused, they go to the domestic incumbent Telecom (Turk Telecom) and null route your entire company ip addr space. Basically all of turkey won't be able to hi…

To be honest, that sounds like the reasonable and fair thing to do when a foreign company is violating your laws on the internet. First tell them to stop, then block them. Not every country has this "safe harbor" concept that the US does, so you may have to take responsibility for the content you host if you want access to those markets.

It'd be better if they were transparent about it and you could see these actions clearly instead of having to glean it from a looking glass or from in country probes.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#95

Post by lopmotr »

brenden2 wrote: post #19

I wonder what will happen (politically) in countries that engage in mass Internet censorship when SpaceX's Starlink constellation goes GA. I've always believed (perhaps naively) that the Internet is a great equalizer for information. Free (as in freedom) and unfettered Internet access seems like one of the few things that could make it incredible difficult for bad and oppressive regimes to operate anywhere in the wor…

They can simply outlaw possession of the equipment for connecting to it. Kind of like how guns don't make it incredibly difficult for oppressive regimes because they simply don't allow everyone have them.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#96

Post by koheripbal »

euix wrote: post #79
tomrod wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless he hoards wealth and assets in a third party area, like Mars, Antarctica, or his private home with a hired army

How far are we really from private armies really? Sometimes I feel like the US is descending back to feudalism. The billionaire tycoons of today are just lacking homage of some PMCs to be modern day barons of their own domain.

The "army" for these billionaires is an army of lawyers and lobbyists.

... then again that reinforces the existing system, not a descent to feudalism.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#98

Post by kariha »

baybal2 wrote: post #78
kariha wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incorrect. The block was began because of Turkey was in the list of State-sponsored Terrorism article [1]. Turkish authorities asked to remove the content from Wikipedia, otherwise they will be blocked. [2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_of_Wikipedia_in_Turkey#c...

Yes, that is the formal pretext, but everybody knows that Erdogan's damat is the real reason

That's misrepresentation of the root cause. The block was there, because it's easy to block. Uber is blocked in Turkey, you can't even access uber.com. Pastebin.com is blocked due to a data leak was posted in there a couple of years ago. Imgur is banned due to pro-terrorism post, AFAIK but I'm not sure. There's no damat (son-in-law) in those cases. Damat is a multiplier but not a reason.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#99

Post by koheripbal »

navaati wrote: post #25
brenden2 wrote: post #19

I wonder what will happen (politically) in countries that engage in mass Internet censorship when SpaceX's Starlink constellation goes GA. I've always believed (perhaps naively) that the Internet is a great equalizer for information. Free (as in freedom) and unfettered Internet access seems like one of the few things that could make it incredible difficult for bad and oppressive regimes to operate anywhere in the wor…

As a billionaire philanthropist you will still have to align to your home country’s foreign policy, because your billions only have value so far as the State enforces your property rights. So very concretely, if China says "hey US of A, please don’t bring uncensored Internet to my citizens: it would be a shame if all this manufacturing and trade suddenly stopped", and the US gov agrees, then Elon Musk will not provid…

Even if they had that sort of leverage, we would still gain some price for exerting that control. So it would still be a win-win for the US.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#100

Post by jacquesm »

TheNorthman wrote: post #90
blattimwind wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common perception is that Soviet electroncis were generally 10-15 years behind.

Common perception is that the US contributed the most to ending WW2 (Not the opinion at the time) Common perception is also that the US won the space race (Not the opinion at the time outside the US). Perhaps "common perception" isn't the right metric to go by.

It depends on whose perception. Common as in 'the world' is something that we don't really have so you are always going to have to go by some locally colored version of events.

The US eventually did win the space race, but they lost Rounds 1 and 2 to Russia. The United States getting involved in WW2 when they could no longer ignore it ended up getting the formidable American industrial engine engaged in ways that had Japan been a little bit smarter might have seen a completely different ending to WW2.

The US view is that they did all the heavy lifting, when in fact Canada and the UK did given the relative sizes of their population at the time made a disproportionate difference in Western Europe, but America was definitely very important while in the East Russia made the biggest difference. In the pacific it really was the United States that made the difference.

Perception when simplified to the point where it makes no sense isn't the right metric to go by, but with some nuance it can actually be quite useful.

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