Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 413 posts

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#291

Post by cameldrv »

chongli wrote: post #261
samename wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the sortition method effective at combating this problem?

I have heard about sortition and its supposed benefits but I have never read anything about it used in a real life context. However, perhaps something related to sortition is the concept of visibly random groups [1], which is being tested and used in classroom settings. The paper goes into a lot more detail, but the essential benefit is that the usual cliques and friend groups get disrupted and everyone feels way mor…

South Korea had a very interesting experiment last year. They randomly selected about 500 people to decide what to do about nuclear power in South Korea. They were drafted to spend several months learning about the pros and cons of nuclear power and then voted on what the country should do. This is an extremely interesting model to me.

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-South-Korean-president...

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#292

Post by nate_meurer »

mark-r wrote: post #267
thewebcount wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Teflon doesn't react with anything . That's its purpose. So even though it's a fluorocarbon, it's unlikely to cause health problem because it just won't react with your body. Or is there some other mechanism through which it causes damage, such as blocking something by physically being in the way?

Consider what happens to your immune system when it detects a foreign particle that it can't get rid of because there's no way to interact with it.

For the most part, what happens is nothing. PTFE is completely biologically inert, which is why it's commonly used in surgical implants and prosthetics. Only the finest particles (Ingested PTFE passes right through the digestive system unaltered. You can scrape the non-stick coating off of all your pans and eat it, and there will no detectable fluorinated chemicals in your blood.

However, if you heat that nonstick pan above 600 deg F, the decomposition products can easily injure you, and sometimes worse. But even in this case, and main danger does not appear to be microfine PTFE particles, but rather chemical nasties like fluoroacetates.

There are many studies on this. One example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11042093 - "Pulmonary effects induced by ultrafine PTFE particles"

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#293

Post by rayiner »

jokoon wrote: post #287
thewebcount wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a legitimate question. Think of it this way. If we stop using Teflon coatings on pots and pans, will that, for example, increase the amount of cooking oil used in cooking? And if so, will that cause other health effects such as more oil being aerosolized and getting in people's lungs more? Will it cause more oil to clog up pipes (think London's "fatbergs" for example)? Will it cause more oil to go into landf…

This is speculative > and you may just be trading one poison for another one or a worse one. What poison exactly? This almost is whataboutism.

It's not at all speculative. At the very least, getting rid of PFAS will cost money and reduce convenience. Those things are valuable. People will accept some level of risk in order to have comfort and convenience and save money--and to do so is completely rational. That's why people drive, eat red meat, etc.

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#294

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

anigbrowl wrote: post #194
coldtea wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think democracy was always problematic. Its original form, direct democracy, was vulnerable to the tyranny of the masses. Who deemed that a problem? The elites wanting specific decisions out of the masses.

Questionable. After all, it's often the elites whipping said masses up to fury, a trend which continues today in more systematic fashion.

They have to do that to build a voting bloc: Feign alignment with the disenfranchised masses to win elections. Then enact policies that reinforce their rancor.

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#295

Post by jokoon »

xivzgrev wrote: post #180

Great. So the mind control fluoride crazies were (kind of) right all along.

Yeah the difference being that PFOA is a carbon chain, whereas fluor in trace amounts can improve dental health.

So they're still wrong, fluoride is added to water in very small amounts, but PFOA/PFOS are other unrelated chemical byproducts. They only share the fluoride element.

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#296

Post by papito »

mnm1 wrote: post #249
papito wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I've always scoffed at the Socialist paradise of Western Europe, but I've changed my mind after traveling to Denmark a few months ago. The government employs a lot of people, and they seem to make sure that they themselves work for the public good. The public . You know, people who all live in the country. Everything is clean and the trains are on time. Let's not bundle everyone under "Democracy". Our s…

Why should we have to force socialize people in a context of killing others? We force socialize people in plenty of other contexts like 12 years of schooling, most of which is mandatory. That hasn't gotten people to play in a team. Why would six weeks be any different? The only thing that will come out of mandatory boot camp is resentment and hate towards the government, institutions, and people that demand it. My pa…

I didn't say conscription. Basic 6 weeks training with zero obligation to serve. I would imagine it would actually solve the recruitment struggles as many people will love it and join right away.

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#297

Post by hammock »

smitty1110 wrote: post #242
abandonliberty wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That site isn't loading for me. I would hope that vapor-permeable membranes work (e.g. gore-tex). The only problem is that the outside of the garment gets wet, and they're not very breathable

Gore-tex is PTFE, also known as Teflon, which is a flurocarbon. Several of the waste products or reactants for making Teflon are in the same category as DWR products, and are basically toxic forever. There's not much you can do if you need fabrics with these properties, you just need to pick you poison.

Add for clarity: Goretex (like all modern waterproof-breathable products) is a system, which includes a PTFE membrane, as well as a DWR coating. The fabric is not breathable without the DWR coating, as it will "wet out."

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#298

Post by samstave »

nate_meurer wrote: post #214

Meanwhile, these same PFAS chemicals are sprayed liberally onto the surface of clothing that we all wear, and increasingly furniture as well, and this may account for far more human PFAS consumption than drinking water. PFAS chemicals are widely used for waterproofing fabrics. The industry term is DWR -- Durable Water Repellent. The chemicals are sprayed onto the surface and simply left there to rub off on your hands…

If this is a topic that concerns you, I recommend you should watch the documentary "The Devil We Know"[0] -- About DuPont's Teflon production and how its literally in the bloodstreams of all.

I recall growing up in Tahoe, we would spray the heck out of all our winter wear with Scotch Guard (Teflon) and even breath in its fumes...

[0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7689910/

[1] https://www.netflix.com/search?q=the%20devil%20we%20know&jbv...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Devil-We-Know-Bucky-Bailey/dp/B07H7XJ...

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#299

Post by Supermancho »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #286
mark-r wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider what happens to your immune system when it detects a foreign particle that it can't get rid of because there's no way to interact with it.

What happens? I'm not an immunologist, and "common sense" certainly doesn't seem like the way to think about the behavior of something as complex as the human immune system.

The human immune system doesn't need to "interact" with a physical particle. White cells envelope (standard attack) a foreign particle, then dies around them, and the resulting envelope is expelled. Your body is mostly fluid. Internal fluids don't really need complex chemical interactions but the dead white blood cell acts as an effective envelope for transport, by design. eg mucus in your nose when you're sick.

Re: U.S. drinking water widely contaminated with 'forever chemicals': report

#300

Post by welder »

Use the EWG zip code search to find your water utility [1]. That shows which chemicals or toxins were found when testing your tap water, and scrolling down you see which filter system can remove those chemicals.

For ex: San Francisco's City Water has Chromium (hexavalent) at 0.0906 ppb, and Total Trihalomethanes (TTHMs) at 38.9 ppb [2]. The "Water Filters That Can Reduce Contaminant Levels" table says Activated Carbon and Ion Exchange filtration can't remove those particles, but Reverse Osmosis can.

[1]: https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/

[2]: https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/system.php?pws=CA3810011

Post reply on HN