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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

341–350 of 734 posts

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#341
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only way more friction than iCloud, but you’d be surprised how many people nowadays don’t even own a PC or Mac. In my wife’s family 60% of people only have phones, tablets and smart TVs. They use laptops/desktops only at work.

We Need iOS TimeCapsule.

We need Time Capsule. Period. It was discontinued in 2018. [1] I am still so sad about this.

1: https://www.macworld.com/article/3269361/apple-discontinues-...

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#342
I've seen the list that Apple provides on their web site that lists the things that are end to end encrypted, but what about "Locked" Notes?

My understanding is that encryption is happening on the client-side and that you need to enter your password to unlock.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#343

The ecosystem is incredibly insecure, despite what Apple's marketing department wants you to think. More than anything I'm surprised at how often their advertising talking points are parroted in tech circles, like here on HN.. in any thread hinting at Google vs Apple you're bound to find a long comment chain about how Apple is "secure" and "privacy oriented" and "cares about their users". Not that Google is any bette…

It all depends on your threat model. For the average person I’m not worried about the relatively unlikely occurrence of the government accessing their backups. I’m much more worried about the more likely occurrence of local malware or ad tracking by malicious apps including from big names like Facebook & other social media companies, and in that instance Apple is still ahead as the OS restricts what apps can do a lot more than Android, the App Store is more curated against malware, etc.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#345
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, it's possible that because we have a smartphones duopoly, Apple only needs to maintain a position where people will say "well at least it's not as bad as Google". I'm upset about this personally, but I'm not ditching my iPhone. Of course, this does cement my decision to never pay for iCloud, for what that's worth (much less, but not nothing). Agreed, and I am likely going away from Android and in…

I'd argue that Android, without the Google stuff, is still the best option if you care about privacy and security. This is not accessible for average Joe, but I'm pretty certain the majority of readers here can use the tools to load an alternative ROM. That you can enable and use F-droid just fine. And are knowledgeable enough to know what apps to avoid.

First off, it's useless to talk about "Android" because it ranges from phones literally bought with malware on them from stores to something like CopperheadOS (now GrapheneOS).

But let's say we talk about Pixel phones, on which typically Google doesn't invade your privacy much more than it does on any other phone through its preinstalled apps, but at least it lacks additional OEM-installed spyware.

A Pixel phone is not more privacy-friendly than an iPhone, not even close. But in this particular context, I do believe Google now allows encrypted backups of phone data with your own key. But, other than that, Pixels still leak data from all pores.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought iMessage private keys are somehow based on data in the "secure enclave" chip, and thus not able to be stored in the cloud. It's my understanding that Apple could add new "devices" to listen in on future conversations, but it can't read iMessage conversations in transit between existing devices. It can also read iCloud backups of conversation content, which are created by the client device after decrypting t…

That definately isn't meaningfully true, because MacOS devices without enclaves can function as iMessage clients.

This is a really good point; I don't use Messages on my Mac so I forget that's an option.

Maybe the concept is the same, but on a Mac the private key is stored in the Keychain instead of a physical enclave?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#347
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, it's possible that because we have a smartphones duopoly, Apple only needs to maintain a position where people will say "well at least it's not as bad as Google". I'm upset about this personally, but I'm not ditching my iPhone. Of course, this does cement my decision to never pay for iCloud, for what that's worth (much less, but not nothing). Agreed, and I am likely going away from Android and in…

They botched the original Windows Phone through a failure of management. They botched subsequent pushes on it because the bootstrapping problem around apps had grown too deep. At this point, if they tried to give it another go, there would be trust issues: "Am I investing in a phone ecosystem that's going to be dead in a few years?" Not to mention how much they've gone all-in on Android development. A Surface-branded…

   They botched subsequent pushes on it because the bootstrapping problem around apps had grown too deep.
I don't really think that is necessarily accurate. Lots of smaller developers would be more than happy to have a green field for app development if another player were willing to put the effort into assuring the device isn't a POS, and is priced reasonably. Some of the larger apps (netflix for example) already have a dozen diffrent versions because they support not only ios/android but a pile of similar devices (TV's/etc) and likely don't have a problem with another platform if it has a future and has the prereqs (widevine or similar DRM for example).

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#348
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has bought into that meme I will admit this feels like a pretty huge betrayal by Apple. So, yes, I think if Apple sticks with this, their whole privacy stance is going in the toilet now. And a very dirty toilet it is. Beyond just the facts of not protecting data, there is also the deception. This is some really very, very, nasty stuff for Apple's brand and the reputation of every person who works at Ap…

Yeah, but what are the reasonable alternatives? Android, with its freewheeling stance on privacy and app permissions? Do they even let you disable location tracking any more?

Practically speaking there is no privacy in the digital world, unless you're willing to go full Stallman, or abandon modern society and go live in a mountain shack somewhere, and even there you'll have dozens of Starlink satellites overhead pretty soon.

The best you can do if you're technically inclined is to use open source as much as possible (AOSP, postmarketOS, PureOS, etc.), minimize use of untrusted software and services (from all major corporations, no social media, no proprietary software in general), use network-level ad blockers, Tor if you think it helps, VPNs, encrypt everything, etc. And you'd still be tracked and profiled.

If you're not technically savvy, forget about it.

In either case if privacy is really a concern vote to elect politicians that are willing to enact laws that regulate the way companies can use personal data. Though considering both companies and governments benefit from the status quo, I don't foresee things improving in the near future, barring some kind of revolution where the majority wakes up, which is also unlikely. If the Snowden revelations didn't do it, I doubt anything will.

So much for fighting 1984, Apple.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#349

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

It's also flakey as hell (just looked and my latest backup is over 3 weeks old), and relies on having a computer plugged into power at the same time as your iPhone, with enough free space. I've tried getting my family to use it (mainly because they didn't want to pay for iCloud storage), before giving up and just paying their storage for them.

> and relies on having a computer plugged into power at the same time as your iPhone, with enough free space.

I mean... yes? How else would they do it? Data transfer is power-intensive, and encryption is also power-intensive. Imagine having only 10% battery on your laptop while you're working at a coffee shop or something and suddenly it drops to 5% because it's started a backup.

Sure, the majority of the time it'd probably work out fine, but Apple's UX philosophy is to simply remove undesirable states from the equation by sufficiently limiting users' options. This is exactly the kind of behavior I would expect from this feature.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#350
post #316
post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

> No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. You're splitting hairs over the definition of 'cares'. I think we all understand what that word means in this context.

> I think we all understand what that word means in this context.

No, we don't, and that's exactly the point.

We tend to anthropomorphize companies. "Good Guy Google" has become "Evil Google". "Micro$oft" has become "Altruistic, OSS Microsoft". Apple has become "Defender Of Privacy". But all of these are illusions created by marketing departments; there is no real sentiment behind any of them that can be used to predict future behavior. And it takes constant vigilance to remind yourself that those narratives are empty.

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