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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#221

Post by gonational »

cr0sh wrote: post #118

Between things like this, and the shenanigans Google pulls (with Android, the store, developers, and other things), I'm quickly going in a different direction. My ultimate plan is to build my own phone; yes, I'll still be stuck with a carrier (I use t-mobile, and I haven't had a problem with them over 10+ years I've used them), and the hardware won't be completely "open source", but the software and OS will at least…

It sounds like an awesome idea, and I’ve considered ordering a pine phone for the same reason.

I don’t know why anyone would down vote your comment. On “hacker news” it’s no longer considered cool to hack together your own tech?

When did HN become a corporate bootlicking dump?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#222

Post by sparker72678 »

I wish Data Protection (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/protecting_t...) would allow app developers to use a locally-derived key to secure app data.

Then, even in iCloud Backups, you'd still not have the key to decrypt specific app data without having unlocked the device.

I realize you could do this right now (in theory) with your own encryption solution and Keychain, but a first party solution that's as easy use as the Data Protection features/apis would be really nice.

Apple has plenty of data that I wish was E2E encrypted, but if many/most of my 3rd party apps had their own data locked, that would go a long way in the right direction.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#223

Post by baddox »

tomaskafka wrote: post #208
mrtksn wrote: post #57

Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…

Two things: 1) There is no way Apple would be allowed to sell iPhones in China, without China government having access to anything. So, I assume that Apple users in China have e2e encrypted exactly nothing. 2) I have a strong suspicion that those 'enter your Apple ID password because your account needs it' message really means 'a government has requested your data and even though it's encrypted, we will nag you about…

My impression is that iMessage is indeed encrypted end-to-end in China, same as everywhere else.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#224

Post by luxuryballs »

metafunctor wrote: post #6

What the... I was under the impression that iCloud backups are end-to-end encrypted. This is a HUGE problem.

Nope only local iCloud backups are encrypted, which is why I never backup to the cloud.

But this makes me wonder if they have our local boxes totally owned already which is why the local encrypt feature would not hamper investigations?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#225

Post by giancarlostoro »

_bxg1 wrote: post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

> On the other hand, it's possible that because we have a smartphones duopoly, Apple only needs to maintain a position where people will say "well at least it's not as bad as Google". I'm upset about this personally, but I'm not ditching my iPhone. Of course, this does cement my decision to never pay for iCloud, for what that's worth (much less, but not nothing).

Agreed, and I am likely going away from Android and into iOS for my next phone. It's still a setting you can change so it's not forced into their cloud thankfully.

I wish Microsoft hadn't backed out. A Surface Phone would be kind of cool. I guess too much stigma about Microsoft has held them back from being competitive. I think they shoulda waited for their Microsoft Store to grow much more organically, then release the Windows Mobile phones.

The other issue is Google's agreements.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#226

Post by rrmm »

lostgame wrote: post #58
t4skf0rc3 wrote: post #22

Privacy? Who needs it, amirite? I mean, I'm not up to anything illegal, and I don't actually care about people seeing my stuff, BUT... the concept as a whole of "government should have access to everything all the time, regardless of reasoning" does not sit well with me.

You don't even, for instance, torrent? Movies, music? (You don't have to answer that. :P ) Ever pirate apps, even just to try before you buy? The point is, if someone from the law is interested in you, or suspects you of some grander illegal thing, a lot of us do illegal things that might just be a little less grand, and a lot of us have the digital equivalent of a broken taillight.

There are plenty of more mundane misuses as well. Ex-spouse stalking, slighted lawman with a grudge, technician with a weird fetish. Sure there should be safeguards but they don't always work as well as you'd hope.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#227

Post by justapassenger »

GeekyBear wrote: post #207

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

It’s not only way more friction than iCloud, but you’d be surprised how many people nowadays don’t even own a PC or Mac. In my wife’s family 60% of people only have phones, tablets and smart TVs. They use laptops/desktops only at work.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#228

Post by neya »

justapassenger wrote: post #191

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

>While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone

I simply don't understand why people would blindly believe marketing material from a for-profit corporation. It's a device running closed source software. There is no way to prove this claim. If anything, Apple has been caught in the past sending very very personal sensitive information [1].

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-con...

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#229

Post by Spooky23 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #96
mrtksn wrote: post #57

Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…

I thought iMessage private keys are somehow based on data in the "secure enclave" chip, and thus not able to be stored in the cloud. It's my understanding that Apple could add new "devices" to listen in on future conversations, but it can't read iMessage conversations in transit between existing devices. It can also read iCloud backups of conversation content, which are created by the client device after decrypting t…

That definately isn't meaningfully true, because MacOS devices without enclaves can function as iMessage clients.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#230

Post by natch »

justapassenger wrote: post #191

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

As someone who has bought into that meme I will admit this feels like a pretty huge betrayal by Apple. So, yes, I think if Apple sticks with this, their whole privacy stance is going in the toilet now. And a very dirty toilet it is.

Beyond just the facts of not protecting data, there is also the deception. This is some really very, very, nasty stuff for Apple's brand and the reputation of every person who works at Apple. I don't know how to state it strongly enough.

Huge Apple fan until today... see my comment history... this is devastating for them amongst the sliver of their users who pay attention to this stuff. And they should realize that even though we may be just a sliver, we can lead other customers away from them if we want to.

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