Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#201

Post by azinman2 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

nickpeterson wrote: post #173

azinman2 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally disagree. I work for Apple, and I can tell you that for everything you do privacy is involved. It’s not just marketing.

Involved isn’t the same as guaranteed. I think commenters here are arguing that Apple isn’t being honest about what is available to law enforcement. My guess would be silent updates targeted at individual users who they have search warrants against.

The list of E2E above is quite transparent. The notion of building a special version of the OS to target an individual is just not how the infrastructure works, and totally goes against the entire spirit of privacy that pervades everything you do internally.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#202

Post by frickinLasers » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

nickpeterson wrote: post #173

azinman2 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally disagree. I work for Apple, and I can tell you that for everything you do privacy is involved. It’s not just marketing.

Involved isn’t the same as guaranteed. I think commenters here are arguing that Apple isn’t being honest about what is available to law enforcement. My guess would be silent updates targeted at individual users who they have search warrants against.

I think I would have once considered this acceptable, that it agrees with the spirit of the law, except that warrants have lost their meaning thanks to FISA rubber stamps.

Edit: Also, it's compelled speech though.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#203

Post by tamcap » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

j4_hnews wrote: post #157

TheGrassyKnoll wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does https://spideroak.com/ (I have no affiliation)

Have you read the SpiderOak disclaimer though? NOTE: Logging in via the SpiderOak website does temporarily allow SpiderOak employees access to your password. https://spideroak.support/hc/en-us/articles/115001854583-ONE...

That works for any service where you don't fully control the other endpoint. They are just being transparent. Although the wording re: website is peculiar. Could it be their form of a canary like warning?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#204

Post by JohnFen » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

justwalt wrote: post #145

tomp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different places define (in)justice differently.

But isn’t morality universal?

Morality is defined by culture, so there is no "universal" morality as such. However, there are certain specific things that are included in almost all moral frameworks.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#205

Post by slimginz » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

chias wrote: post #153

djrogers wrote: post #139

Another case of a headline not being supported by the story: “ Reuters could not determine why exactly Apple dropped the plan. “Legal killed it, for reasons you can imagine,” another former Apple employee said he was told, without any specific mention of why the plan was dropped or if the FBI was a factor in the decision.” And further on: “ However, a former Apple employee said it was possible the encryption project…

In fairness, the title does not say that Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups because FBI complained :P

I know you're being cheeky and pedantic, but that's exactly the spin the title was trying to go for in order to get clicks. While not "technically" wrong, it's still pretty dishonest imo.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#206

Post by _bxg1 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users

No company cares about anything. A company is not a person.

Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it.

They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change.

On the other hand, it's possible that because we have a smartphones duopoly, Apple only needs to maintain a position where people will say "well at least it's not as bad as Google". I'm upset about this personally, but I'm not ditching my iPhone. Of course, this does cement my decision to never pay for iCloud, for what that's worth (much less, but not nothing).

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#207

Post by GeekyBear » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud.

Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac.

This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#208

Post by tomaskafka » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…

Two things:

1) There is no way Apple would be allowed to sell iPhones in China, without China government having access to anything. So, I assume that Apple users in China have e2e encrypted exactly nothing.

2) I have a strong suspicion that those 'enter your Apple ID password because your account needs it' message really means 'a government has requested your data and even though it's encrypted, we will nag you about entering a password, and if you give it, you're a free game'.

I don't blame Apple for this, I'm sure they're doing what they can, but when a government says 'give us this data', they can't not comply. Vote responsibly - companies can't protect us from a government we have put into power.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#209

Post by terminaljunkid » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

justapassenger wrote: post #191

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

That meme should have been diminished earlier. People should understand while Google saves much data within itself, Apple shares it with advertising partners.

By the way, People have come to hate Google all the way for some advertising and easily switch-able data collection. But one should at same time hesitate to vote to apple with their wallets, they are a monster company which patents rounded corners of phones and things like optional chaining in Swift. That just goes unnoticed in circles like HN. IMO apple has always been more evil than Google.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#210

Post by zionic » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

metafunctor wrote: post #6

What the... I was under the impression that iCloud backups are end-to-end encrypted. This is a HUGE problem.

Not only this, but your iMessage E2E is protected in flight by a key that gets stored in your backup. So anyone recording your iMessages can retroactively decrypt them if they get your backup.