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Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

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Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#61

Post by madaxe_again »

pergadad wrote: post #46

This seems to be a rather simplistic/one-sided answer furthering a specific agenda. * The responses that don't fit the narrative that 'legal' vaping is safe are'explained away' in this article - that's just unscientific and a matter of ignoring contrary evidence. * There are other dangers to vaping ignored in the argument (eg addiction, kids starting even earlier if there's 'bubblegum' or 'cherry' flavour rather than…

Indeed. Flavoured alcohol should be banned too, as cherry liquor exists only to get the kids hooked, right? All alcohol should taste like misery and fire and should be sold in plain brown packaging featuring grisly photos of people who died in alcohol related accidents. I mean, prohibition worked perfectly last time, and definitely didn’t kill more people than the alleged problem it was trying to solve, right?

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#62

Post by DoingIsLearning »

Gatsky wrote: post #58
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies…

Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smo…

With the risk of creating a slippery slope, you could make the same argument for spending federal budget regulating breast implants, they are only fractionally used for breast reconstruction, so for the majority of cases they are elective and used by someone who has made that choice.

The substance is legal and consumed by your citizens. Either make it illegal or regulate it, I am not sure there is much point in making moral judgements.

*Breast not brest

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#63

Post by eru »

Gatsky wrote: post #58
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies…

Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smo…

It's very hard to addict anyone to nicotine. Basically, doesn't really happen all that much.

Cigarettes on the other hand are highly addictive. There's lots more in their smoke than just nicotine.

See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine for more than you ever wanted to know.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#64

Post by rzmnzm »

Gatsky wrote: post #58
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies…

Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smo…

No matter how much joy people get from driving, it is not worth 37,000 deaths per year. There are proven ways to reduce road fatalities (busses). The government should not be in the business of wasting taxpayer money regulating private pleasure cars.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#65

Post by saiya-jin »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #37
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #13

The big problem seems to be that vaping has never been proven to be safe or safer than cigarettes. There's always been the assumption that it is. My suspicion is that something like this outbreak will happen again. I'm not a fan of the vaping companies since their goal seems to be to get users addicted to their product but they should go through the process of proving that vaping is safer than cigarettes so they don'…

That assumption is there because in the US, things are generally assumed to be safe until proven it isn't. I don't see people asking if the cups they buy are safe to drink from (e.g. many BPA free cups are worse than BPA cups but no one seems to care), or the food they eat. They don't ask for proof their humidifier is safe. The reason why people are concerned is because vaping is a smoking replacement and people hate…

Care to share some info about those dangerous non-BPA cups/plastics?

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#66

Post by hurricanetc »

Gatsky wrote: post #58
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulate the same way the FDA regulates all other products. As someone outside the US who has to work with the FDA, Americans should be very proud of how thorough FDA inspectors are at auditing and how good they are at identifying non-conformances and just plain criminal lack of due diligence. There is a database of 'offenders' that are no longer allowed to sell their products it's seriously scary what some companies…

Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smo…

You could apply this to virtually any product category. Liquor, beer, tobacco, soda, meat, toothpaste, soap, on and on and on.

Well you don’t need soda it’s a vice so we aren’t going to regulate it and make sure products are safe.

Who defines the start and end for what should be regulated? You? Legal products in the US should be safe to purchase. If marijuana is legalized it should be safe to purchase also.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#67

Post by Nitramp »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #13

The big problem seems to be that vaping has never been proven to be safe or safer than cigarettes. There's always been the assumption that it is. My suspicion is that something like this outbreak will happen again. I'm not a fan of the vaping companies since their goal seems to be to get users addicted to their product but they should go through the process of proving that vaping is safer than cigarettes so they don'…

Suggesting that smokers should not vape because its dangers have not been fully established is like suggesting taking the stairs might be dangerous, so you should rather jump out of the window, as we know the dangers of that precisely.

Of course for non-smokers, it's a totally different equation.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#68

Post by berbec »

eru wrote: post #63
Gatsky wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smo…

It's very hard to addict anyone to nicotine. Basically, doesn't really happen all that much. Cigarettes on the other hand are highly addictive. There's lots more in their smoke than just nicotine. See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine for more than you ever wanted to know.

I respectfully disagree. I was easily able to switch from cigarettes to vaping, but every time I stop vaping I get withdrawal.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#69

Post by berbec »

mistermann wrote: post #39
tjohns wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes there’s no long term cancer risk from vaping, which we simply don’t know yet.

Is there any plausible theoretical basis for a cancer risk from vaping?

Nicotine is a carcinogen

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#70

Post by Gatsky »

hurricanetc wrote: post #66
Gatsky wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the FDA use up government resources to regulate vaping? Put another way, why do we think the solution for people with no integrity or no clue or both trying to make money out of vaping (Juul included) is to spend taxpayers money helping them behave themselves? I find this attitude pretty crazy to be frank. Consider that whatever happens from here, however much joy everybody gets from vaping and blowing smo…

You could apply this to virtually any product category. Liquor, beer, tobacco, soda, meat, toothpaste, soap, on and on and on. Well you don’t need soda it’s a vice so we aren’t going to regulate it and make sure products are safe. Who defines the start and end for what should be regulated? You? Legal products in the US should be safe to purchase. If marijuana is legalized it should be safe to purchase also.

I don’t see your point. I argue vaping should be banned. All those other things you list are already in widespread use, it’s irrelevant.
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