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Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

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Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#51

Post by virtuous_signal »

ido wrote: post #49
virtuous_signal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that last part. Most Eastern European countries were part of the USSR and underwent massive revolutions. I've even seen them described as low-trust societies, but they seem to do well.

What do you mean when you say eastern european countries "do well" (supposedly compared to China)? Some (like the Baltics) are doing great, but I don't think I'd rather live in Moldova, the Ukraine or Albania rather than China.

“Well” was the wrong word (unless one is thinking of the experiment as a test). I simply meant the percentage of lost wallets returned. In the study from Science that the LA Times article covers, this group of countries as a block did better than all countries from South America or Asia, for instance.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#52

Post by vkou »

factsaresacred wrote: post #26
virtuous_signal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that last part. Most Eastern European countries were part of the USSR and underwent massive revolutions. I've even seen them described as low-trust societies, but they seem to do well.

The Cultural Revolution was unlike the political revolutions of Eastern Europe. It was a bloody orgy of violence and vandalism that attempted to tear traditional Chinese culture out from the roots, and in the process destroyed China's social fabric and trust, perhaps irreparably (or at least until the Party collapses and the country can confront its past - something the Eastern European nations have been allowed to d…

The cultural revolution was not the cause of this. Chinese history did not start in 1966. 1966 was preceded by six decades of brutal military occupation, a complete breakdown of law and order, and civil war.

I'm not sure you can point at any country that had gone through such a violent, unstable, and lengthy period of fragmentation and bloodshed, and came out on the other end as a cohesive, high-trust society.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#53

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

sanitycheck wrote: post #6

I think part of this is that a far greater proportion of "lost" valuables in Japan are _really_ lost than in other countries, street crime being pretty rare. But still, that 6% figure for New York! Can it be true? Is it really normal to steal other people's shit if they leave it behind?

I can't speak to NYC but in SF you absolutely will lose your shit. I have had coworkers get their cars broken into midday after leaving their backpack unattended for an hour or so. Friends have had their backpacks yanked from between their legs on Bart as it entered a station. These are not situations where these items are just laying around, and they were still taken.

Coworkers have lost their laptops at bars or coffee shops because they got up for a few minutes. It could be that the value is so well established in this area; if you steal a backpack you are almost guaranteed to get a Macbook. IDK if that is similar in NY.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#54

Post by raarts »

drdeadringer wrote: post #31
duxup wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a good blog post about a guy living in Japan. Here he was in this clean and crime free place, but his bicycle kept getting trashed overnight. Just his bike parked in a sea of other bikes. He thought it was because he was a foreigner, but finally after he reported it to the police numerous times someone explained the phrase "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." and pointed out the bikes he was buying…

> "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." Ever since I first heard this I've kept both this phrase and the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" in mind at the same time. Basically, both sides of this coin together ask you "should you speak up?" type of thing; substitute "speak up" with whatever the given situation is.

We Dutch have a similar proverb: "Whoever sticks his head above ground level, his head is cut off. "

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#55

Post by simmanian »

GuB-42 wrote: post #21
vearwhershuh wrote: post #4

"What’s in it for the finder to be honest enough to hand in the item?" By asking this question, you deny yourself access to its answer.

Why? That's the kind of question that makes up the entire field of game theory. In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. That's how natural selection works. But when people don't act like that, it means there must be some opposing force, normally one that benefits society. There is a lot to learn here, in fields as diverse as biology, economics, computing, and of course, games.

As Hobbes writes in The Leviathan, Western civilization views the world as a "war of all men against all other men." Basically, the world is made up of individuals, and everyone is on their own, and they must fight with others in a zero-sum game to attain safety and happiness. If you subscribe to this view, it becomes harder for people to see that it's actually in your interest to act in good faith.

That is how I understood GP's comment.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#56

Post by duxup »

raarts wrote: post #54
drdeadringer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." Ever since I first heard this I've kept both this phrase and the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" in mind at the same time. Basically, both sides of this coin together ask you "should you speak up?" type of thing; substitute "speak up" with whatever the given situation is.

We Dutch have a similar proverb: "Whoever sticks his head above ground level, his head is cut off. "

That seems a lot less elegant a phrase...

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#57

Post by seppin »

raarts wrote: post #54
drdeadringer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." Ever since I first heard this I've kept both this phrase and the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" in mind at the same time. Basically, both sides of this coin together ask you "should you speak up?" type of thing; substitute "speak up" with whatever the given situation is.

We Dutch have a similar proverb: "Whoever sticks his head above ground level, his head is cut off. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#58

Post by ido »

zuminator wrote: post #45
sanitycheck wrote: post #6

I think part of this is that a far greater proportion of "lost" valuables in Japan are _really_ lost than in other countries, street crime being pretty rare. But still, that 6% figure for New York! Can it be true? Is it really normal to steal other people's shit if they leave it behind?

Just as an anecdote from a NYC resident, a couple years back I found a Japanese woman's wallet on a commuter bus. From the address I saw that the owner lived in my neighborhood so I went by her home after work to return it. Nobody was home so I left a little note with my phone number. She called me, and I met her the next day to return it to her. I considered our business concluded but about two months later she and…

I don't know about Japanese culture, but where I'm from accepting the gift would be the polite thing to do (vs rejecting it).

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#59

Post by sethammons »

zebnyc wrote: post #27

Honest question: Do folks feel warm fuzzies when they do something "good / +ve"? Frankly unless I went out of my way to do something significant, I don't feel anything. Asking as there might be some of that going on here. For e.g., around Christmas here in SF, I was a at a shopping mall parking lot waiting for my wife to return. I noticed a man counting a few bills of cash. He counted and then turned to head to his c…

Likely a few dollars means nothing to you so the act of pointing the nearly lost dollars is a similar small task (not withstanding the possibility the act could have a profound effect on the recipient depending on their situation).

When I was younger and we were struggling hard, we found a wallet in a store loaded with green bills. That money would have had immediate, real, positive impact for us, like gas money and food that we did not have. We turned in the wallet and did not bother counting the bills. The cashier might have pocketed the money, who knows. But hopefully the owner of the wallet got their stuff back. I think that act does cast a barometer on my and my wife's character. We did what was "right" -- the property was not ours and not ours to take. Did we feel good about it? Nope! It was just doing the right thing even though there was a touch of pain to it.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#60

Post by lawn »

duxup wrote: post #30
supernova87a wrote: post #15

There are both amazingly good and amazingly bad things about Japanese culture. The shame of being seen to be not honest or respecting people's property leads to amazing responsibility and kindness. But it also leads to people being depressed and feeling constrained not to be able to break out of societal expectations. The very things that make us love Japan, would make you go crazy to live there. So enjoy the privile…

There was a good blog post about a guy living in Japan. Here he was in this clean and crime free place, but his bicycle kept getting trashed overnight. Just his bike parked in a sea of other bikes. He thought it was because he was a foreigner, but finally after he reported it to the police numerous times someone explained the phrase "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." and pointed out the bikes he was buying…

Wasn't there a story a while ago how a Japanese school essentially forced (or put a lot of pressure) a schoolgirl to dye her hair to fit in with the other girls, but it failed over and over until she got burns on her head?
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