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Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

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Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#31

Post by drdeadringer »

duxup wrote: post #30
supernova87a wrote: post #15

There are both amazingly good and amazingly bad things about Japanese culture. The shame of being seen to be not honest or respecting people's property leads to amazing responsibility and kindness. But it also leads to people being depressed and feeling constrained not to be able to break out of societal expectations. The very things that make us love Japan, would make you go crazy to live there. So enjoy the privile…

There was a good blog post about a guy living in Japan. Here he was in this clean and crime free place, but his bicycle kept getting trashed overnight. Just his bike parked in a sea of other bikes. He thought it was because he was a foreigner, but finally after he reported it to the police numerous times someone explained the phrase "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down." and pointed out the bikes he was buying…

> "The nail that sticks out gets knocked down."

Ever since I first heard this I've kept both this phrase and the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" in mind at the same time.

Basically, both sides of this coin together ask you "should you speak up?" type of thing; substitute "speak up" with whatever the given situation is.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#32

Post by harikb »

jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

Is it possible the social support structure, education, etc are creating a society where unfortunate people don't have to steal/pawn to make a living?

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#33

Post by reroute1 »

mcast wrote: post #28
jessriedel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in NYC coffee shops on a daily basis for 2 years (and Toronto and SF for more years). Whenever I went to the bathroom, I just asked a random person nearby if they would make sure no one walked off with my stuff. I never had anything stolen, and the people I ask don't seem bothered in the slightest. It's a very small burden, and I think there's something pleasant about having someone put their trust in you.

This is the standard I've encountered at coffee shops and school libraries, no one seems to mind. However, it would be easy to build an app that alarms when the battery becomes disconnected (i.e. someone walks away with your stuff).

> It would be easy to build an app that alarms when the battery becomes disconnected (i.e. someone walks away with your stuff).

Wait what? How does this work?

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#34

Post by tyfon »

It's not quite at the level of Japan, but Aftenposten, which is a newspaper in Norway, conducted a test [1] (translation [2]) in Oslo where they "lost" 20 wallets. 15 eventually returned.

Personally I've lost my wallet twice and it has been returned both times.

It is nice to be able to trust your fellow citisens somewhat :)

[1] https://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/i/zlOb/slik-gikk-det-da-a...

[2] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#35

Post by reroute1 »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #24
GuB-42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? That's the kind of question that makes up the entire field of game theory. In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. That's how natural selection works. But when people don't act like that, it means there must be some opposing force, normally one that benefits society. There is a lot to learn here, in fields as diverse as biology, economics, computing, and of course, games.

Exactly.

Exactly what?

> By asking this question, you deny yourself access to its answer.

... No it doesn't?

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#36

Post by someone7x »

GuB-42 wrote: post #21
vearwhershuh wrote: post #4

"What’s in it for the finder to be honest enough to hand in the item?" By asking this question, you deny yourself access to its answer.

Why? That's the kind of question that makes up the entire field of game theory. In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. That's how natural selection works. But when people don't act like that, it means there must be some opposing force, normally one that benefits society. There is a lot to learn here, in fields as diverse as biology, economics, computing, and of course, games.

> In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains.

The iterated prisoner's dilemma begs to differ.

There are many many situations where cooperation is both natural and optimal.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#37

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

jessriedel wrote: post #25
nwienert wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homogenous, nationalistic, small country with high IQ, good education system, high GDP, low levels of immigration, and a culture that emphasizes community. Oh, and lower levels of inequality, relatively, and a more aligned politics/media system that doesn’t foment distrust.

I mostly agree, but note that Japan has 126M people, so it's quite large.

Yeah, but when you compare 126m to 1.3b I feel like you'd expect to see drift between the results. That's 10x the amount of people. If only 1 in every 10 people in each country is willing to break the social norms and ignores social pressures, then China will have 10x the amount of these infractions compared to Japan.

But yes, Japan is not a small country even if it is a relatively small landmass.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#38

Post by keiferski »

reroute1 wrote: post #33
mcast wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the standard I've encountered at coffee shops and school libraries, no one seems to mind. However, it would be easy to build an app that alarms when the battery becomes disconnected (i.e. someone walks away with your stuff).

> It would be easy to build an app that alarms when the battery becomes disconnected (i.e. someone walks away with your stuff). Wait what? How does this work?

This is already a thing: https://beepify.com

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#39

Post by dfxm12 »

sanitycheck wrote: post #6

I think part of this is that a far greater proportion of "lost" valuables in Japan are _really_ lost than in other countries, street crime being pretty rare. But still, that 6% figure for New York! Can it be true? Is it really normal to steal other people's shit if they leave it behind?

But still, that 6% figure for New York! Can it be true? Is it really normal to steal other people's shit if they leave it behind?

Who said anything about shit getting stolen? The article claims: 88% of phones “lost” by the researchers were handed into the police by Tokyo residents, compared to 6% of the ones “lost” in New York. (emphasis mine)

I found a wallet in NY once. The ID had the owner's address around the corner and I was able to drop it off to him. I found a phone once (I noticed it was ringing on an otherwise empty table) it was the phone's owner calling from her girlfriend's phone. I was able to hand it back to her myself. The cops really didn't need to get involved in either case and didn't. In another American city, I've left my phone in a cab and gotten it back without going through the police as well. Is a city a less trustful place if the cops aren't thought of as a lost & found?

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#40

Post by jdtang13 »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #10

This smells like a lot of post-hoc rationalization. Collectivism? What about China, which did terribly on this kind of test. Shintoism? Only 3-4% of the population follows that. See https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-people-are-honest-los... where the graphic in the middle of the page compares countries. It appears that Scandinavian countries fare best followed by Eastern European. I would be happy to hear what p…

I completely agree. Foreign culture analyses like this are always tinged with bias and an incurable desire to find little small-picture justifications. I'm sick and tired of seeing every random quirk of Japanese people being explained as "Shinto this, Buddhism that"; it's such an oversimplification. The interior lives of human beings are built upon perhaps 1,000,000 variables, not just 3 variables.

The writing is in English, published by someone who spent an entire life growing up in the West. And, as you mentioned, this "returning item phenomenon" seems not to be the case in modern China, even in the cities.

If you want to even begin to describe Eastern culture in English, maybe take a look at how hard it was, and still is, to articulate the internal world of the Russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_soul

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