Live data from Hacker News

What kind of data is my new car collecting?

theglobeandmail.com

171–180 of 210 posts

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#171
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an urban fantasy series called "The Rivers of London" series after the first book (or "Peter Grant"-series after the main character) and magic interferes with (in the sense of completely fries ) more complicated electronics there, so his master (the last fully qualified wizard of Great Britain) also drives an old Jaguar that is all-mechanical and therefore magic-proof. Very entertaining series with lots of r…

Sounds very similar to "The Dresden Files". The main character is forced to drive around in an old car, since his magic interferes with electronics.

That poor car... It was almost a character of the series and it was always getting the worst end of things. I would drive a beetle if I didn't know it would kill me in an accident. One almost killed my dad.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What determines the ignition timing without distributor?

You can move the points just like you'd rotate a distributor. One set of points drives one coil which provides ignition for two cylinders, one which is firing (near the end of its compression stroke) and the other non-firing (near the end of its exhaust stroke). For a four-cylinder engine, two sets of points and two ignition coils are used. This setup is even used on modern-ish vehicles, where two transistors drive t…

Sorry. What do you mean with points? On my old car the distributor also had a vacuum line that would adjust ignition depending on revs.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#173

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

I wouldn't mind an automated governor that picks up speed limits from RFIDs in the road. If it could make residential roads safe for kids again it would be worth it 10x over. Although automated fines for passing the speed limit is kinda stupid when you can just limit the car in the first place.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#174
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hopefully I can physically disconnect it without the car nagging about it being missing Don't count on it. Physically locating it and disconnecting it might be very difficult. Worse, since the module in networked via CAN, you literally have no idea how the rest of your car will react. It could switch to limp mode, for example.

> Don't count on it. Physically locating it and disconnecting it might be very difficult. I already know where it is: it's in a box underneath the entertainment system ("head unit"), and there are a lot of instructions about accessing it. I also have two options for disconnecting it: 1) total disconnection 2) leave it connected, but cripple its function by removing the antenna connections I'm thinking that if #1 resu…

Better: unscrew the antenna and screw in a matched termination/load instead. This will protect the amplifier inside (HF reflections due to a miss match could fry it with overloading the transistor), and be an even worse antenna compared to an open SMA (or such) connector.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#175
post #163
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That said, I believe that there is very limited legal recourse for a vehicle OEM who wants to prevent an end user from changing the data collection and upload features of their vehicles. The worst thing would be potentially voiding the warranty, but for 10-15 year old used vehicles, that's not an issue. >I work as an in-house counsel at a vehicle OEM If you're really a lawyer, I'm surprised you'd write any of this,…

I wasn't aware of that, but perhaps it will hearten you to know that I don't deal with warranty law in my day-to-day. So, I clearly have more to learn - not sure why you felt it necessary to call my credentials into question over it though. But in any case, your post does strengthens my main point, which is that fear over surveillance of vehicles by OEMs, with no consumer recourse, is somewhat overblown. EDIT: Just r…

I only questioned your credentials because you said you were in legal counsel, and at an automotive OEM of some kind. Most people who've done any significant DIY car work know about this law, because it's protected them for decades from dealers that would try to deny them warranty coverage for completely unrelated non-dealer repairs or maintenance. For instance, a dealer can't claim that some kind of engine trouble isn't covered because you replaced your own brake pads, or worse, because you replaced the radio. They also can't deny warranty coverage just because you had an independent mechanic work on your car instead of the dealership. Furthermore, they can't require OEM parts to be used, unless they provide them for free. I would have thought anyone working in automotive legal would know about this off the top of their head.

As for your example, that sounds pretty contrived and ridiculous to me. Doesn't mean someone might not try it though; companies have tried lots of ridiculous legal tactics before, such as Oracle's current API lawsuit. But I imagine any decent court would shoot it down pretty quickly. Warranty claims are made because parts fail before the warranty expires; the absence of telematics isn't going to magically make some mechanical part fail faster. It might help identify it sooner, sure, but it's still a defective part for failing that quickly, so I don't see how the consumer disabling telematics absolves the manufacturer from covering this. In short, it's never been "reasonable" before this for car companies to have telematics to keep their machines working properly through the warranty period, so why is it suddenly required now? It's not reasonable for anything else either; does a new house need telematics for the house warranty to be valid? How about a blender or toaster in the kitchen? I don't see this argument going far at all.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#176
post #42

> A car camera for Affectiva, a company that is developing technology for measuring driver emotions, in Boston, on Oct. 6, 2018. No. Just no. Why would anyone allow collecting this kind of information? There is no way it can't (so, won't) be used against you. Everyone gets angry from time to time.

Starting in 2021 (or is it 2022?) a driver-facing camera will be required to get a 5 star safety rating. The idea is to catch "distracted" or otherwise incapacitated drivers and prevent accidents, but I am sure it will get used for other things...

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#177
post #20

I'd really love to see companies start being proud to be "dumb" and disconnected.

That’s take a long time for this to come full circle and for most people to want such a thing (and being willing to pay for it). Meanwhile, what may become available would be the “Apple Car” or something similar that collects data for processing locally in the vehicle and has measures to not send it “to the cloud”. We’d have another one of those “What happens in your car stays in your car” marketing campaigns!

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#178
post #99

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

This is not legal advice, and you should consult an attorney if you believe that an OEM may come after you for tampering with your own vehicle. That said, I believe that there is very limited legal recourse for a vehicle OEM who wants to prevent an end user from changing the data collection and upload features of their vehicles. The worst thing would be potentially voiding the warranty, but for 10-15 year old used ve…

I shouldn't need to attack my car with a soldering iron and wire cutters because I don't want to be tracked by it.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a diesel car that I once drove with no alternator and no battery: started off a jump and drove to the auto parts store. Radio, windows, and lights were dead, but the car drove fine.

That's how diesel works, off its own compression.

Diesels don't require spark, but modern diesels use electronics for fuel injection, fuel pump, drive-by-wire throttle, engine monitoring, and so on.

Since at least the ~2000 era, a VW diesel will run with no alternator (for a while) but not without a battery.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#180
post #118

One of my major requirements when I was shopping for my last car was that it not have a cell modem to enable connected car features. It's too difficult for them to monetize your data if they can't get it off your car in near-real time. I also reckon it's a bit more secure. The car salesmen have no idea about whether the cars they're selling have modems or not, so I found you have to ask about them indirectly in terms…

> One of my major requirements when I was shopping for my last car was that it not have a cell modem to enable connected car features.

The EU's eCall would like to have a word:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall

Post reply on HN