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What kind of data is my new car collecting?

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Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#141

Post by bagacrap »

geocrasher wrote: post #113
bagacrap wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you're happy with your ownership of that thing, but I'm more glad that most of them are off the road by now as we've made great strides in emissions and crash safety since the 80s, not to mention mileage. These are factors with measurable real-world impact on your fellow citizens, and, I would submit, more important than your paranoid secrecy wrt your dietary habits.

Heh it's not paranoia, it's just a matter of privacy. Then again, my phone already knows, so it's moot. Crash safety has come a long way, no doubt. But mileage really has not. For all the complexity of a modern Suburban (at over $50K USD!) it gets 14 MPG around town and up to 23 MPG on the highway. Mine gets about 14/17. Since most of my driving is local, it doesn't really matter.

FWIW unless you have a diesel your official city mileage was 11 when the car was new. But as someone who has to live near other people and use roadways myself, I'm more concerned about tailpipe emissions. NOx standards are literally 100x more stringent starting in 2025 than 30 years ago (50x now compared to 1988).

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#142

Post by Seenso »

gambler wrote: post #134
Seenso wrote: post #118

One of my major requirements when I was shopping for my last car was that it not have a cell modem to enable connected car features. It's too difficult for them to monetize your data if they can't get it off your car in near-real time. I also reckon it's a bit more secure. The car salesmen have no idea about whether the cars they're selling have modems or not, so I found you have to ask about them indirectly in terms…

>Hopefully I can physically disconnect it without the car nagging about it being missing Don't count on it. Physically locating it and disconnecting it might be very difficult. Worse, since the module in networked via CAN, you literally have no idea how the rest of your car will react. It could switch to limp mode, for example.

> Don't count on it. Physically locating it and disconnecting it might be very difficult.

I already know where it is: it's in a box underneath the entertainment system ("head unit"), and there are a lot of instructions about accessing it.

I also have two options for disconnecting it:

1) total disconnection

2) leave it connected, but cripple its function by removing the antenna connections

I'm thinking that if #1 results in an error #2 would be less likely to.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#143

Post by rapnie »

Seenso wrote: post #123
falcolas wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that Tesla is now in this space, and turning off Tesla's access to it will turn off your car, period. I have a hard time believing that others in the industry will not take the blase reaction to this and then do it themselves.

> Don't forget that Tesla is now in this space, and turning off Tesla's access to it will turn off your car, period. Which is super scary. A couple years ago one of their firmware engineers had his NDA expire, and he posted some stories about his time there in some forum. One of the stories that stuck with me is they were really sloppy with their updates. One time the pushed one that wasn't fully cooked (it might hav…

I have this Reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/99sbwa/form...

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#144

Post by jpindar »

hprotagonist wrote: post #67
Eikon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the engine two-stroke?

Two cylinder, four stroke. Old Honda UJM with a small engine and fairly low compression ratio, so you could kick it over in one kick without breaking your ankle.

Heck, you could 'kickstart' some of them by hand.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#145

Post by munmaek »

bagacrap wrote: post #109
geocrasher wrote: post #96

I'm proud to say that my vehicle has zero tracking, is user serviceable, and my purchase of it had zero carbon impact. It's also 32 years old, gets 14-15mpg, and drives like a truck. It's a 1988 Chevy Suburban. I bought it a few years ago, for $1450 and really haven't put much into it overall. It runs reasonable well (still some things to figure out) and is comfortable. If I had some money I'd fix some of the things…

I'm glad you're happy with your ownership of that thing, but I'm more glad that most of them are off the road by now as we've made great strides in emissions and crash safety since the 80s, not to mention mileage. These are factors with measurable real-world impact on your fellow citizens, and, I would submit, more important than your paranoid secrecy wrt your dietary habits.

> These are factors with measurable real-world impact on your fellow citizens, and, I would submit, more important than your paranoid secrecy wrt your dietary habits.

1. Why is this one or the other? Can't we have efficient cars that also don't track us?

2. How, in 2020, do people still not understand how serious location data is? In the USA, and likely anywhere that has cars + little public transportation (like rural areas), your car basically displays your life. Where you live, work, eat, meet people, attend events, etc. How long until law enforcement asks for all people who drove near a protest/rally? Or advertisers get that data and start targeting you based on where you drove? Why should a freaking car company (who is 100% guaranteed going to sell your data) have access to your entire location profile? The thought of this alone is frustrating and maddening because of how easily we hand out our data. People have no idea how powerful bulk collection of user data is.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#146

Post by geocrasher »

ropiwqefjnpoa wrote: post #112
geocrasher wrote: post #96

I'm proud to say that my vehicle has zero tracking, is user serviceable, and my purchase of it had zero carbon impact. It's also 32 years old, gets 14-15mpg, and drives like a truck. It's a 1988 Chevy Suburban. I bought it a few years ago, for $1450 and really haven't put much into it overall. It runs reasonable well (still some things to figure out) and is comfortable. If I had some money I'd fix some of the things…

You don't need to go that old or inefficient to avoid tracking or data uploads. Many modern cars have no GPS's or cell service (black box only).

Indeed! It's a matter of what I already have. I didn't go that old because o those things, those things are in place because I bought a vehicle that old. I'm just counting my blessings out loud, that's all ;)

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#147

Post by antsar »

rrdharan wrote: post #82
jhoechtl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fond memories of my Merceded W124. You could rip the engine out of the car and it would go on and on. No electricity for motor management required whatsoever.

I think you meant "rip the battery out"?

Either one works, as long as you're going downhill.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#148

Post by cptskippy »

mikestew wrote: post #39
cptskippy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a vendor-provided way to shut this off? In the Tesla Model 3 and Nissan Leaf there are menu settings to disable it. Additionally in the Leaf it prompts you at interval (every 2000 miles?) to notify you about it.

Leaf it prompts you at interval (every 2000 miles? Or every g-ddamned time you start the car, depending if you have a first-gen or not. The GPRS radio in ours is unhooked, so now the button press is just ceremony so you can see the screen. But do note the part where the cell radio is unhooked. Whatever the car, there’s a module in there somewhere that probably just needs to be unplugged.

> Or every g-ddamned time you start the car, depending if you have a first-gen or not.

My in-laws have a Ford Escape that does that.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#149

Post by pjc50 »

tjoff wrote: post #79
pjc50 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swings and roundabouts in the EU: GDPR should clobber all the nonconsensual data collection, but there is also the "eCall" mandate that will require your car to phone in location to the emergency services in the event of a crash. (What happens when an EU national drives one of the American surveillancemobiles? Sounds like a straightforward GDPR violation to me, although good luck getting that resolved)

Don't really see how eCall is related to the data collection? A potential privacy issue yes, but much less so than the data collection.

Well, in order to implement it the car has to have a "phone" (mobile station) and a GPS. And I think (although not proven) that in order to meet the time requirement it has to keep both of them "warm", ie registered to network with a GPS fix. Which means at the minimum the mobile operators know where the car is at all times. And the car manufacturer has built almost all the hardware for full tracking.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#150

Post by Ididntdothis »

jpindar wrote: post #139
LeonM wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you still need an ignition source. The OP is confusing the distributor with individual coils found on modern engines. A distributor is only there to distribute the spark to the cylinders. On modern engines the distributor has been replaced by individual coils (on per cylinder).

Well, sometimes one coil for each pair of cylinders. I'm not aware of any motorcycle that had a distributor though.

What determines the ignition timing without distributor?
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