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What kind of data is my new car collecting?

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Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#31

Post by jhoechtl »

paganel wrote: post #22
xg15 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me answering those questions will be part of a greater process to balance power and interests between manufacturers and consumers/users. E.g., Tesla already seems to try and decide the questions in the way manufacturers would likely have them, i.e. suppressing data transmission is tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement. I thi…

> s tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement. I suspect this will become a huge societal problem if it continues like this in a car-dependent country like the US. Yes, the middle-class people will probably still be able to purchase $30,000-40,000 cars for the foreseeable future (even adjusted for inflation), but what will happen to the…

The more technology is built into a car, the more obsolescence shall quickly devaluate it?

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#33

Post by jhoechtl »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #9
hprotagonist wrote: post #5

Not too long ago I owned a motorcycle from the 70s. I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof: no fuel injection, no fuel pump, certainly no OBD anything, and a (literal) kickstarter. The most complicated thing in the wiring harness was the key cylinder and the relay for the turn signals and headlights. I miss that bike sometimes.

I had a diesel car that I once drove with no alternator and no battery: started off a jump and drove to the auto parts store. Radio, windows, and lights were dead, but the car drove fine.

Fond memories of my Merceded W124. You could rip the engine out of the car and it would go on and on. No electricity for motor management required whatsoever.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#34

Post by cptskippy »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #4

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

> Is there a vendor-provided way to shut this off?

In the Tesla Model 3 and Nissan Leaf there are menu settings to disable it. Additionally in the Leaf it prompts you at interval (every 2000 miles?) to notify you about it.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#35

Post by flyingfences »

merpnderp wrote: post #17
hprotagonist wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TVs, too.

Tv's are simple though, just don't connect them to a network and they work fine.

I've heard allegations that some of the newer TVs will automatically scan for open networks in the background.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#36

Post by _Microft »

hprotagonist wrote: post #5

Not too long ago I owned a motorcycle from the 70s. I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof: no fuel injection, no fuel pump, certainly no OBD anything, and a (literal) kickstarter. The most complicated thing in the wiring harness was the key cylinder and the relay for the turn signals and headlights. I miss that bike sometimes.

There is an urban fantasy series called "The Rivers of London" series after the first book (or "Peter Grant"-series after the main character) and magic interferes with (in the sense of completely fries) more complicated electronics there, so his master (the last fully qualified wizard of Great Britain) also drives an old Jaguar that is all-mechanical and therefore magic-proof. Very entertaining series with lots of references to current pop culture.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_Mark_2#Portrayal_in_med...

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#37

Post by paganel »

jhoechtl wrote: post #31
paganel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> s tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement. I suspect this will become a huge societal problem if it continues like this in a car-dependent country like the US. Yes, the middle-class people will probably still be able to purchase $30,000-40,000 cars for the foreseeable future (even adjusted for inflation), but what will happen to the…

The more technology is built into a car, the more obsolescence shall quickly devaluate it?

You would think so, but afaik there's almost no older smart-phones around (think 4-5 years-old) because they're expensive to repair, that is if you can repair them at all.

That's why you don't see less-wealthy people commuting to their jobs in an early 2000s Mercedes S-Klass or in a VW Phaeton (even though they'd be able to purchase such vehicles at today's prices), but instead they use an older Honda or a Toyota or a slightly newer Nissan.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#38

Post by JadeNB »

xg15 wrote: post #12
SamuelAdams wrote: post #4

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

Seems to me answering those questions will be part of a greater process to balance power and interests between manufacturers and consumers/users. E.g., Tesla already seems to try and decide the questions in the way manufacturers would likely have them, i.e. suppressing data transmission is tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement. I thi…

> E.g., Tesla already seems to try and decide the questions in the way manufacturers would likely have them, i.e. suppressing data transmission is tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement.

Not that I doubt that they believe this, or even that they've said or implied it, but is there any official statement from Tesla to the effect of prohibiting, or even trying to limit, resale without Tesla's involvement?

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#39

Post by mikestew »

cptskippy wrote: post #34
SamuelAdams wrote: post #4

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

> Is there a vendor-provided way to shut this off? In the Tesla Model 3 and Nissan Leaf there are menu settings to disable it. Additionally in the Leaf it prompts you at interval (every 2000 miles?) to notify you about it.

Leaf it prompts you at interval (every 2000 miles?

Or every g-ddamned time you start the car, depending if you have a first-gen or not. The GPRS radio in ours is unhooked, so now the button press is just ceremony so you can see the screen.

But do note the part where the cell radio is unhooked. Whatever the car, there’s a module in there somewhere that probably just needs to be unplugged.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#40

Post by avip »

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

It's already handed over to insurance companies.
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