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What kind of data is my new car collecting?

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Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#131

Post by clucas »

falcolas wrote: post #116
clucas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not legal advice, and you should consult an attorney if you believe that an OEM may come after you for tampering with your own vehicle. That said, I believe that there is very limited legal recourse for a vehicle OEM who wants to prevent an end user from changing the data collection and upload features of their vehicles. The worst thing would be potentially voiding the warranty, but for 10-15 year old used ve…

Don't forget that Tesla is now in this space, and turning off Tesla's access to it will turn off your car, period. I have a hard time believing that others in the industry will not take the blase reaction to this and then do it themselves.

Yeah, fair - that's definitely a difference between vocational vehicles and personal vehicles. If we tried to do that, our end customers would laugh us out of the room.

However, I believe consumers also have a way to laugh Tesla out of the room, eventually: public policy ideas like the first sale doctrine, or just straight up passing new laws saying that when you buy a car, the manufacturer must provide basic certain basic services (such as allowing the vehicle to run, and warranty for basic components) even if the purchaser elects to deactivate some of the data collection.

In the past few decades, we have really allowed power to accrue to large corporations, but I think that things like the right-to-repair movement show that the pendulum may swing the other direction, at least in some contexts. Regardless of overall political or economic ideology, as soon as a large portion of the population realizes that these OEMs are basically saying "yes, pay me a good chunk of your annual salary, and I'll let you use this vehicle as long as you don't piss me off," I think things will swing very quickly in favor of consumers. The reason it hasn't yet is because most people don't have to deal with vehicles with these restrictions.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#132

Post by fmajid »

_Microft wrote: post #36
hprotagonist wrote: post #5

Not too long ago I owned a motorcycle from the 70s. I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof: no fuel injection, no fuel pump, certainly no OBD anything, and a (literal) kickstarter. The most complicated thing in the wiring harness was the key cylinder and the relay for the turn signals and headlights. I miss that bike sometimes.

There is an urban fantasy series called "The Rivers of London" series after the first book (or "Peter Grant"-series after the main character) and magic interferes with (in the sense of completely fries ) more complicated electronics there, so his master (the last fully qualified wizard of Great Britain) also drives an old Jaguar that is all-mechanical and therefore magic-proof. Very entertaining series with lots of r…

Yes, but Peter Grant drives a Ford Asbo (Ford Focus ST), which presumably has electronics. He just needs to remember not to do magic while driving.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#133

Post by anon73044 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #77
paganel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To judge by what I've seen lately cars have started becoming full of tablets and tablet-like screens, those things will be expensive if not impossible to repair in 10-years' time.

The future is now. Sourcing a CANBUS module for a 10+yo car is already a roll of the dice. Take all the modules that are required for the vehicle to operate, are matched to the VIN, can't be re-flashed, aren't available aftermarket and aren't made by the OEM anymore and anything that breaks where those sets intersect turns the vehicle into a brick. The list gets a little longer every day and won't get shorter until w…

>Take all the modules that are required for the vehicle to operate, are matched to the VIN, can't be re-flashed, aren't available aftermarket and aren't made by the OEM anymore and anything that breaks where those sets intersect turns the vehicle into a brick.

I'm starting to doubt this more and more. Dumping the ROM from a read-only chip and flashing a new one isn't rocket science. After watching stuff like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqWhId-tQXs&t=9m31s and guys like Dave Jones and Louis Rossman, it looks like the entire repair industry is long due for disruption. Sure, finding old or obsolete parts will still be a problem, but not impossible.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#134

Post by gambler »

Seenso wrote: post #118

One of my major requirements when I was shopping for my last car was that it not have a cell modem to enable connected car features. It's too difficult for them to monetize your data if they can't get it off your car in near-real time. I also reckon it's a bit more secure. The car salesmen have no idea about whether the cars they're selling have modems or not, so I found you have to ask about them indirectly in terms…

>Hopefully I can physically disconnect it without the car nagging about it being missing

Don't count on it. Physically locating it and disconnecting it might be very difficult. Worse, since the module in networked via CAN, you literally have no idea how the rest of your car will react. It could switch to limp mode, for example.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#135

Post by everdrive »

ng7j5d9 wrote: post #85
everdrive wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good reliable cars are currently cheaper than ever. Of all the problems stacked against the poor, I'm not sure that cars have become less obtainable. Adjusted for inflation, the cheapest economy cars are quite inexpensive, and generally speaking, they last much longer than they did 20-30 years ago.

That's the opposite sentiment that I've heard recently (from an American perspective). My understanding is that our used cars are more expensive than ever due to: a) Certified pre-owned and similar programs making some used cars more appealing (and thus more valuable), removing them from the supply of unvetted, cheap used cars. b) More folks being able to afford used cars around the world. It seems like at the lower…

>a) Certified pre-owned and similar programs making some used cars more appealing (and thus more valuable), removing them from the supply of unvetted, cheap used cars.

That seemed to be true for a while, but I've seen prices relax quite a bit lately. It's possible this was just local, and I'm not seeing a broader trend.

It's also the case that perfectly good brand new cars can be had for $13-$14k, (Nissan Versa, Ford Fiesta) which I appreciate are not attainable for many people.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#136

Post by LeonM »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #102
mywittyname wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That bike is way too old for ignition coils, it almost certainly has a distributor, which could be mechanically rotated.

I hope I am not confusing things but as far as I know there is still a coil if you have a distributor.

Yes, you still need an ignition source. The OP is confusing the distributor with individual coils found on modern engines.

A distributor is only there to distribute the spark to the cylinders. On modern engines the distributor has been replaced by individual coils (on per cylinder).

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#137

Post by jpindar »

aivisol wrote: post #53
mywittyname wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That bike is way too old for ignition coils, it almost certainly has a distributor, which could be mechanically rotated.

One cylinder engine has no distributor, but AFAIK coil is still needed. Where do you get high voltage for ignition from?

From a magneto, but AFAIK those were obsolete well before the seventies.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#138

Post by jpindar »

mywittyname wrote: post #51
LeonM wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof The ignition coil will probably not survive an EMP event, so the bike will not run. However, it should be pretty straight forward to wind a new ignition coil if you ever find yourself in a post-nuclear situation.

That bike is way too old for ignition coils, it almost certainly has a distributor, which could be mechanically rotated.

That is false, ignition coils go back to... before the sixties at least, when magnetos were used. And no bike that I know of ever had a distributor.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#139

Post by jpindar »

LeonM wrote: post #136
Ididntdothis wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope I am not confusing things but as far as I know there is still a coil if you have a distributor.

Yes, you still need an ignition source. The OP is confusing the distributor with individual coils found on modern engines. A distributor is only there to distribute the spark to the cylinders. On modern engines the distributor has been replaced by individual coils (on per cylinder).

Well, sometimes one coil for each pair of cylinders. I'm not aware of any motorcycle that had a distributor though.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#140

Post by stanferder »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #119
coldpie wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in a similar situation and ended up with a 2011 Mazda3 hatchback. The plan is to limp this sucker along until hopefully our public transit infrastructure improves enough that I don't have to drive ever again.

HAH! Was shopping for something similar, albeit a 2012 and/or 2013 that a local dealer has in stock. Same idea though: drive it until it dies and then pray that uber/lyft/whatever is mature enough that I never have to think about it again.

If your goal is to maintain your privacy as you travel around town, uber/lyft/whatever aren't a suitable solution.
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