What kind of data is my new car collecting? • Hacker News Board

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#21

Post by LeonM » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #5

Not too long ago I owned a motorcycle from the 70s. I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof: no fuel injection, no fuel pump, certainly no OBD anything, and a (literal) kickstarter. The most complicated thing in the wiring harness was the key cylinder and the relay for the turn signals and headlights. I miss that bike sometimes.

> I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof

The ignition coil will probably not survive an EMP event, so the bike will not run.

However, it should be pretty straight forward to wind a new ignition coil if you ever find yourself in a post-nuclear situation.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#22

Post by paganel » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #12

SamuelAdams wrote: post #4

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

Seems to me answering those questions will be part of a greater process to balance power and interests between manufacturers and consumers/users. E.g., Tesla already seems to try and decide the questions in the way manufacturers would likely have them, i.e. suppressing data transmission is tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement. I thi…

> s tampering and the problem of car reselling doesn't apply as cars cannot be resold anymore without manufacturer involvement.

I suspect this will become a huge societal problem if it continues like this in a car-dependent country like the US. Yes, the middle-class people will probably still be able to purchase $30,000-40,000 cars for the foreseeable future (even adjusted for inflation), but what will happen to the people who won't be able to purchase a second-hand car that costs more than $5000-6000 (or even $1000-2000)? How will they continue to get to work in a country that values public transport so lowly?

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#23

Post by tonyedgecombe » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/cars-in-europe-could-be-fitt...

You won't be allowed to break the law. The petrol heads will complain but they will lose because "think of the children".

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#24

Post by no_flags » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

Our phones, too.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#25

Post by mhb » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

Well what has happened with speeding inferences that can be made from electronic tolls?

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#26

Post by raesene9 » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #23

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/cars-in-europe-could-be-fitt... You won't be allowed to break the law. The petrol heads will complain but they will lose because "think of the children".

I predict a strong market for "classic" cars that are exempt from these regulations...

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#27

Post by Psyladine » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #19

Psyladine wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Depends on LEO. If it is easier to deal with trackable cars, then untrackable cars will be hotter than black tinted windows and radar detectors. It already is, to some extent; why can I not gut my catalytic converter & change some programming so my car says the outputs are fine? Because the state wants me to get rid of my old functional car to supp…

> why can I not gut my catalytic converter & change some programming so my car says the outputs are fine? Because the state wants me to get rid of my old functional car to support the economy of newer more expensive vehicles. ...also probably to protect the environment?

garbage argument. A single cargo container pukes more shit into the ocean and atmosphere than all the little commuter cars put together. And we have fleets of them running 24-7 to make this world possible.

Humans breathe out CO2, I wonder how long until the go-greens suggest a permanent solution to that booming population issue...

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#28

Post by jhoechtl » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

As long as self-driving a car will be allowed (and I predict this will become quickly impossible the moment self-driven cars will share the space with autonomous vehicles) I will refrain buying any car collecting AND transmitting data without my consent.

Yes that means in ten years or so I will be riding a used shabby old car.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#29

Post by paganel » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

I also suspect that in the near future insurance companies will demand higher premiums from drivers who commute on more "dangerous" roads (i.e. roads on which statistically speaking more accidents happen). The companies already have easy-enough access to most of the drivers' GPS data, they certainly do know the GPS locations of most of today's accidents (via Waze-like services), I'm surprised why they haven't already started implementing this.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#30

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #13

One thing that's interesting to me is, modern cars know (relatively accurately) whether you're speeding or not. They have GPS and a database of speed limits. Also depending on what's in the car, they may know who was driving it. How long before a speed safety campaign starts arguing that car manufacturers should be handing over information about people breaking the law in their cars to law enforcement...

That is already here for motor carriers. New York, Kentucky and Tennessee have been piloting different technologies for a few years for truck and bus inspections.

Cars are required to have certain telemetry capabilities starting in 2020 or 2021 as well. We’ll have automatic inspections and taxation by the end of the decade.

Law enforcement already has fairly pervasive networks of fixed and mobile LPR. You cannot leave most cities without a record of it, and if you attract federal attention, passage through many interstate corridors is captured with LPR and photos of occupants.