Who can blame them. Apart from the very center of Paris (that makes up maybe 10% of the city) with the old town and museums and cafes Paris is a very ugly city.
Paris syndrome
111–120 of 176 posts
Re: Paris syndrome
#112Who can blame them. Apart from the very center of Paris (that makes up maybe 10% of the city) with the old town and museums and cafes Paris is a very ugly city.
You clearly don’t know Paris.
Re: Paris syndrome
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a condition not listed as a recognised condition in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders for seeing racist dog whistles everywhere? Wokeness comes to mind.
I saw it as well, before reading the comment pointing it out. Therefore, there is some sort of signal that we're picking up on. That signal, almost by definition, is the aforementioned dogwhistle. It isn't quite the right tone to not be somewhat obvious. Since it is intentional, it doesn't matter "how bad" it was: It's the conscious attempt to insult/denigrate/hurt that itself becomes the problem.
There's no way you can know it was a conscious attempt to do anything. The most one can say is that it's a value judgement about Parisians now versus then - and there's nothing wrong with saying something about that.
Re: Paris syndrome
#114I am part Parisian. (I used to live there and my family is from the city and nice banlieue). I love Paris, but what shocks me every time I go back is the quantity of dog poop (and also trash) in the streets and the inability of city officials to do anything about it. Here are a few tips for visitors: - When interacting with locals, always start off by saying Bonjour Monsieur, Bonjour Madame. That will help disarm cra…
This advice on the Tour Maine-Montparnasse reminds me of my advice to people visiting New York City:
- Touring the Statue of Liberty is a great experience, but if you just want to see it, then the Staten Island Ferry has a great view of it, and it's free to and from Staten Island
- The view from the Empire State Building is amazing, but if you instead go to the top of 30 Rockefeller Plaza, then you get to see the Empire State Building and Chrysler Buildings, and in general get a better experience.
Re: Paris syndrome
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simply pointing out that an iconic city in EUROPE has a large amount of non-Europeans is a dogwhistle? Parisian culture is all but dead and it’s a tragedy.
Wow... At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding i…
>At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism.
There is nothing racist in saying that importing vast numbers of people from a different culture into another will radically change the culture native to that area. Quite the contrary, it's absolute fantasy to try and pretend it does not.
I understand that the concept may be completely foreign to someone who has grown up in modern America, but it's a rising issue amongst Europeans to the extent that the EU has created a position titled "VP for Protecting Our European Way of Life" in the midst of Europeans getting continually more aggrieved over the cultural changes happening with mass migration and worse - the cultural changes expected of them to facilitate that mass migration.
If we can't get past the hand-wringing and proclamations of "racist!" every time someone infers anything remotely negative about immigration, especially mass migration as Europe has encountered, then I can guarantee you there are very dark times ahead.
There are positives and negatives to migration, to bang the drums happily when discussing the positives and then sticking one's fingers in one's ears, closing one's eyes and lashing out when the negatives are brought up is a very dangerous game to play, and that is on any topic, not constrained to migration.
Re: Paris syndrome
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would also recommend not being too loud, French people usually are pretty quiet in restaurants or public spaces, and being loud is frowned upon.
You might have only been to higher-end restaurants, and not the "good ol' french" types that are as much about the atmosphere as they are about the food. The kind of thing I could only name as "à la bonne franquette". For a representative sample of the kind of place I'm talking about, try 'Chez Gladines' in the 13th arrondissement.
I have worn my earplugs (still carried from the flight that morning) in a Paris restaurant where the locals were watching the football.
It was a great atmosphere, but I was glad when the waiter asked us to swap tables to the other room — he rearranged all the noisy people into one room, and the quiet ones into the other.
Re: Paris syndrome
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would also recommend not being too loud, French people usually are pretty quiet in restaurants or public spaces, and being loud is frowned upon.
> French people usually are pretty quiet It's not just French people. American tourists have a reputation in many countries for being annoyingly loud.
An American colleague sent his children (7 years old ish) to the British International school on a foreign assignment, as there was no American school in the city.
The teacher sometimes asked the children were to "use their one metre voice".
Re: Paris syndrome
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Simply pointing out that an iconic city in EUROPE has a large amount of non-Europeans is a dogwhistle? Parisian culture is all but dead and it’s a tragedy.
Wow... At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding i…
> At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism.
If its racist to identify race then you can call me a racist. Sorry, race exists, get over yourself.
Re: Paris syndrome
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
>1. Is there a limit at which you believe mass migration into France would be undesirable? Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable. > what would a legitimate movement to argue for limiting mass migration look like It would exist in a time where mass immigration is causing the…
> Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable. There is clearly more to it than just economic and population density reasons. Culture matters. Consider, for example, that female genital mutilation is now a European problem. Or that Europe today has de facto implemented Islamic bl…
> So mass immigration can clearly change society for the worse outside of simply economic and population density reasons.
But it can also change for the better.
His point is that culture is not fixed and immutable. Whether it changes for better or worse depends on circumstances.
Re: Paris syndrome
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just pointing it out, but putting it in a list of extreme negatives to the city.
Japan is a fairly ethnically and culturally homogeneous country. It is natural that they would expect Parisians to look and behave a certain way. When they don't, it is of course a big negative to many visitors - they come to Paris expecting a certain look and feel, a certain atmosphere and culture, but they are getting something else. You do not need to be from Japan to feel that way when visiting Paris either. And…
Here's how it sounds if worded more frankly: "Paris sucks. The transport sucks, bathrooms suck, food sucks, everyone's rude, and there's lots of immigrants."