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Paris syndrome

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Re: Paris syndrome

#91

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

jackfoxy wrote: post #17
ivanbakel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP is probably being down voted for the racist dogwhistle in their comment.

Is there a condition not listed as a recognised condition in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders for seeing racist dog whistles everywhere? Wokeness comes to mind.

I saw it as well, before reading the comment pointing it out.

Therefore, there is some sort of signal that we're picking up on. That signal, almost by definition, is the aforementioned dogwhistle.

It isn't quite the right tone to not be somewhat obvious. Since it is intentional, it doesn't matter "how bad" it was: It's the conscious attempt to insult/denigrate/hurt that itself becomes the problem.

Re: Paris syndrome

#92

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #36
claudiawerner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you're replying to, but I can't imagine what else, other than race, "People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size)" refers to exactly. Misuse of the term does not preclude the actual presence elsewhere.

Because the only two characteristics Parisian people have are size and race? The very Wikipedia article we happen to be discussing contains " ...Renoux indicates that Japanese media, magazines in particular, often depict Paris as a place where most people on the street look like "stick-thin" models and most women dress in high fashion brands such as Louis Vuitton ...".

And OP themselves excluded "size". So I guess they are upset that people don't dress up. A'right.

Re: Paris syndrome

#93

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #16
ivanbakel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP is probably being down voted for the racist dogwhistle in their comment.

Simply pointing out that an iconic city in EUROPE has a large amount of non-Europeans is a dogwhistle? Parisian culture is all but dead and it’s a tragedy.

Wow...

At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism.

Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding in France.

Re: Paris syndrome

#94

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #32
frostburg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody forced the French to colonize a significant portion of the world, by the way.

What about Berlin and Stockholm? It’s not unique to the colonizers.

In Berlin. A great city: fast, honest, poor & sexy.

Stay away.

Re: Paris syndrome

#95

Post by claudiawerner »

douglasmurray12 wrote: post #64
claudiawerner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you're Japanese or Israeli or hail from any number of other single-ethnicity states, you're totally A-OK to advocate for all of the same things the French want in their nation, without any accusations at all. I love how often I see this statement, then I realize it doesn't apply to me. Absolutely the same standards I hold for my own country, the French, etc. I hold for the Isrealis and the Japanese. Why should ra…

It is not racism or xenophobia to want to preserve what is good about a nation's culture, and limit the import of other nations' and culture's problems. Could you please answer the following questions: 1. Is there a limit at which you believe mass migration into France would be undesirable? 2. If you believe that there is such a limit; what would a legitimate movement to argue for limiting mass migration look like, s…

>1. Is there a limit at which you believe mass migration into France would be undesirable?

Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable.

> what would a legitimate movement to argue for limiting mass migration look like

It would exist in a time where mass immigration is causing the problems I mentioned above.

Re: Paris syndrome

#96

Post by jacobush »

douglasmurray12 wrote: post #82
jacobush wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, as far as I know there is no such policy: https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00398/the-changing-fac...

12% in the most foreign-populated area still seems very low by European standards. Given that a lot of the foreigners are Chinese and Korean, to the European eye it looks even more homogeneous than that. Seine-Saint-Denis, for comparison, had 27% residents born outside Metropolitan France, and that was in 1999. Marseille is 25% muslim.

- "Capitals tend to attrack [sic] most inmigration."

- "Not all capitals - it is a question of policy."

- "Interesting. So in Japan people inmigrate [sic] more uniformly?"

... then you don't answer but proceed to compare capitals of the world to each other. I thought we were comparing countryside immigration to capitals vs to the rest of the country. Not between countries.

Re: Paris syndrome

#97

Post by remarkEon »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #93
GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply pointing out that an iconic city in EUROPE has a large amount of non-Europeans is a dogwhistle? Parisian culture is all but dead and it’s a tragedy.

Wow... At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism. Also most of the people in the Banlieus are third-generation French. Thinking of them as "non-Europeans" is another big fat racist standard. And also part of the reason these people are having a difficult time succeeding i…

Cultures die all the time, and it's usually due to a number of factors - one of them of course being immigration. Pointing this out is not racist. It's a statement of fact, with plenty of history to boot.

>It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism.

No, it isn't. There have been entire neighborhoods in e.g. Harlem that have been gentrified out of their cultural heritage. Is lamenting that fact racist? I for one think it's sad, that a culture that was distinctly black is now gone forever - and it's not racist to say this. Now, Harlem is likely a bad example because it's a place in America, where we are supposed to be a melting pot and this kind of thing happens all the time. I don't have enough experience in Europe to give a more pertinent example, but again I still don't think it's at all bad to lament the fact that there's been some cultural turnover - especially when it happens on a very short timeline. That seems perfectly normal.

Re: Paris syndrome

#98

Post by remarkEon »

claudiawerner wrote: post #95
douglasmurray12 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not racism or xenophobia to want to preserve what is good about a nation's culture, and limit the import of other nations' and culture's problems. Could you please answer the following questions: 1. Is there a limit at which you believe mass migration into France would be undesirable? 2. If you believe that there is such a limit; what would a legitimate movement to argue for limiting mass migration look like, s…

>1. Is there a limit at which you believe mass migration into France would be undesirable? Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable. > what would a legitimate movement to argue for limiting mass migration look like It would exist in a time where mass immigration is causing the…

>I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable.

It's absolutely not fixed and immutable. That's what this whole discussion is about: whether there should be policies directed at preserving culture as it exists.

>It would exist in a time where mass immigration is causing the problems I mentioned above.

That the Far Right has gained power in Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Italy, etc etc (not to mention the US) today is all the evidence I need that we live in that time already.

Re: Paris syndrome

#99

Post by prox »

julienchastang wrote: post #50

I am part Parisian. (I used to live there and my family is from the city and nice banlieue). I love Paris, but what shocks me every time I go back is the quantity of dog poop (and also trash) in the streets and the inability of city officials to do anything about it. Here are a few tips for visitors: - When interacting with locals, always start off by saying Bonjour Monsieur, Bonjour Madame. That will help disarm cra…

This is my milage, been there 5 times. I agree with the salutations. Just learning a few lines of French goes a long way of the locals liking you. They truly appreciate the effort and was able to have quite a few conversations and even was invited to a night into town, it was fun to experience Paris through the eyes of a local.

Re: Paris syndrome

#100

Post by cmehdy »

baby wrote: post #84
julienchastang wrote: post #50

I am part Parisian. (I used to live there and my family is from the city and nice banlieue). I love Paris, but what shocks me every time I go back is the quantity of dog poop (and also trash) in the streets and the inability of city officials to do anything about it. Here are a few tips for visitors: - When interacting with locals, always start off by saying Bonjour Monsieur, Bonjour Madame. That will help disarm cra…

I would also recommend not being too loud, French people usually are pretty quiet in restaurants or public spaces, and being loud is frowned upon.

You might have only been to higher-end restaurants, and not the "good ol' french" types that are as much about the atmosphere as they are about the food. The kind of thing I could only name as "à la bonne franquette". For a representative sample of the kind of place I'm talking about, try 'Chez Gladines' in the 13th arrondissement.
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