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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#51

Post by hiccuphippo »

jeffnappi wrote: post #21

Lime has the worst bikes on the planet - they are complete garbage compared to the Uber/JUMP bikes (and probably others). The Lime bikes seemed to constantly be falling apart and were actually pretty terrifying to ride. On the other hand, the JUMP bikes feel very robust and I feel safe riding them. I would rather walk half a mile to find a JUMP bike than ride a Lime bike. No wonder they are failing. Source: Rode both…

Here in Lima their scooters are bigger and more robust looking than the competition (Movo and Green). Lime has only been operating here for less than half a year and I was looking forward for them to bring bikes too :(

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#52

Post by irjustin »

I use Lime scooters in SF. Too many scooters aren't fully charged in the morning near Market St - I wonder if the charging incentives are being slashed.

Separately, it makes sense that an additional cash infusion is unrealistic at this point. Post WeWork decimation, large D, E, F rounds will be increasingly difficult to close as we go through 2020. Profitability is the right move. Whether it's possible or not...

Best of luck to Lime.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#53

Post by bransonf »

bduerst wrote: post #31
bransonf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll try to do the math here. Assuming the following: Cost to buy: $500 Cost to charge $0.40/day (maybe generous) Cost to Rent: $2/day Rental Mileage: $0.15/min Assume 10mph average, (10 miles/day) $9/day Total: $11/day to rent 2x/week,50 weeks 100 days (200 rides): Buy: $540 Rent: $1100 No way it’s economical to rent scooters routinely. Even if you break your scooter every 6 months, you can still save by buying a ne…

Even with that napkin math, the value to not have to own the asset, insure it against theft, or carry it around constantly is still worth it to some consumers. The spontaneity of "hop on and ride, then forget about it" is the appeal.

You’re right about that value add, but it’s probably not a value add for anyone using an electric scooter as a daily means of transportation.

One of the biggest detractors is that you could ride a scooter to work and when you go to leave, realize the nearest scooter is half a mile away.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#54

Post by nicoburns »

dustinmoris wrote: post #36
Johnny555 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the advantage of rental is the ability to drop off or pick up anywhere -- you can ride a scooter to the office, walk or bus to a restaurant after work, then rent a different scooter home. Or you might take a scooter from work to the restaurant, and you don't need to worry about parking the rental scooter securely or carrying it around with you. But that only works if scooters are ubiquitous enough that you ca…

This model works with cars (e.g. ZipCar) but with scooters I don't see how this is possible, unless the entire city is quite literally littered with scooters. If I have to walk 5-10 min to the nearest car which I can unlock from my phone and then use to drive 5 miles somewhere then it's great, but if I have to walk 5-10 minutes to the nearest scooter pickup so I can scooter somewhere for 5-10 minutes then it sort of…

> unless the entire city is quite literally littered with scooters.

This is certainly true for the hire bikes in London (scooters don't seem to have gotten permission for many areas yet).

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#55

Post by notknifescience »

jeffnappi wrote: post #21

Lime has the worst bikes on the planet - they are complete garbage compared to the Uber/JUMP bikes (and probably others). The Lime bikes seemed to constantly be falling apart and were actually pretty terrifying to ride. On the other hand, the JUMP bikes feel very robust and I feel safe riding them. I would rather walk half a mile to find a JUMP bike than ride a Lime bike. No wonder they are failing. Source: Rode both…

Totally agree with this. Lime bikes were garbage (I have not tried their newer redesigned ones, since I swore Lime off). I had a Lime bike literally snap in half at the joint where the handlebars connect to the riding platform WHILE I was riding it. It flung me forward in to the street. Luckily no traffic around. I contacted support and they offered to reimburse me for the ride. No indication they were treating it seriously whatsoever. After that, I can't support Lime at all.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#56

Post by Wheaties466 »

jeffnappi wrote: post #21

Lime has the worst bikes on the planet - they are complete garbage compared to the Uber/JUMP bikes (and probably others). The Lime bikes seemed to constantly be falling apart and were actually pretty terrifying to ride. On the other hand, the JUMP bikes feel very robust and I feel safe riding them. I would rather walk half a mile to find a JUMP bike than ride a Lime bike. No wonder they are failing. Source: Rode both…

I actually really like the lime bikes. In my city lime is the only option with the E-assist and I see people riding them all the time.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#57

Post by nimbius »

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

Id suspect its the disconnect between wealth and reality. At the end of the day the VC only sees what the VC wants to see. in this case a verdant world of the futuristic e-scooter where each is powered by the fantastic internet technology of the smartphone and destined to enrich and engage the lives of millions while forging a new path in e-commerce that will surely reward the diligent shareholder.

unforeseen is the army of charging slaves that patrol the city at 4 AM for a few extra dollars at their own expense. E-scooters launched through shop windows and into streets after bars close. The Litigation prompted from both governments endless frustration with this new corporate detritus littering the public sidewalk, and citizens facing ugly medical expenses after the sobering reality that cars in the United States are still far more prevalent, careless, and lethal than any chinese internet scooter.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#58

Post by mason55 »

asdfqwer234 wrote: post #41
vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

I was able to rent a scooter from Bird for $25/month in a city and it cut my transportation cost from $170 to like $50. It eliminated ubers to/from events, public transit to/from work, bike rentals to/from gym. Definitely recommend owning a scooter

I'm curious, was there a specific scooter that was yours? Or you just paid $25/mo for unlimited rides?

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#59

Post by arrosenberg »

jonas21 wrote: post #44
ghaff wrote: post #13

I do a lot of travel and, anecdotally, there seems to be a huge variation in popularity of rental scooters by city (even just considering the cities where one or more companies operate). Wide bike/pedestrian paths are probably one factor and weather is another. But they seem very popular in some places and barely used in others for reasons that often aren't immediately obvious, at least to me.

> they seem very popular in some places and barely used in others for reasons that often aren't immediately obvious I think a lot of this has to do with regulation. Some cities actively encouraged scooters and bikes, some took a hands-off approach, and others banned or restricted them to the level where it was difficult to operate. You can really see the effect of this in San Diego, which at first welcomed the bikes…

I don't remember welcoming them, so much as they proliferated over the course of a few months. They were so "popular" that they were being left all over the place to the point where it was widely regarded as hazardous. Companies in this space need to take more responsibility for the impact on the community and environment - regulation didn't kill them in San Diego, the companies themselves did.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#60

Post by notJim »

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

From what I've read, the main driver of profitability is longevity of the scooters, and they've already made a lot of progress extending that.

> In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports.

The report I read stated that if longevity could be extended (which is already being worked on, per above), scooters would be net-negative CO2 wise. However right now, they are net-positive. You are correct that moving the scooters around incurs a carbon hit, but also power generation is dirty, as is producing a scooter that only last for a few months.

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