Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100 • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#11

Post by jacobmoe » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

The advantage of scooter and bike share over owning is spontaneity. I love being able to grab a bike on a whim without any planning. And one-way trips is a big advantage, which of course only works because people are shuttling them around.

I think the relative efficiency of the share model needs to be weighed against the inefficiency of everyone owning their own while only using it a fraction of the time.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#12

Post by jxramos » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

ckuhl wrote: post #7

bosie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

I think the biggest advantage scooters have over ebikes is that for a lot of people, there’s a place to store a scooter at both ends of a commute (under a desk) but not necessarily secure bike storage.

Exactly, I'm actually considering owning a scooter specifically for those situations where I don't have a secure place to store the bike at the other end of travel or during some interval.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#13

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

I do a lot of travel and, anecdotally, there seems to be a huge variation in popularity of rental scooters by city (even just considering the cities where one or more companies operate). Wide bike/pedestrian paths are probably one factor and weather is another. But they seem very popular in some places and barely used in others for reasons that often aren't immediately obvious, at least to me.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#14

Post by josephjrobison » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

bosie wrote: post #6

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

The biggest reason for me would be to prevent sweating in your work outfit. On a scooter you can go fully dressed for work.

I enjoyed biking in Austin, but as you can imagine the intense heat a good portion of the year meant a full outfit change and shower after every ride just to start the day.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#15

Post by hinkley » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market?

For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#16

Post by rocketpastsix » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

ckuhl wrote: post #7

bosie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

I think the biggest advantage scooters have over ebikes is that for a lot of people, there’s a place to store a scooter at both ends of a commute (under a desk) but not necessarily secure bike storage.

Not only that, but as a cyclist who took scooters to the office back when I worked in one, the main advantage was when I used a scooter I didn't show up sweaty.

It doesn't matter how slow you pedal, in the American Southeast, just being outside in the summer makes you sweat. A lot of places in this area don't have offices with showers in them. A scooter let me spend time outside without having to end up being a mess.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#17

Post by bransonf » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

I’ll try to do the math here.

Assuming the following:

Cost to buy: $500

Cost to charge $0.40/day (maybe generous)

Cost to Rent: $2/day

Rental Mileage: $0.15/min

Assume 10mph average, (10 miles/day) $9/day

Total: $11/day to rent

2x/week,50 weeks

100 days (200 rides):

Buy: $540

Rent: $1100

No way it’s economical to rent scooters routinely. Even if you break your scooter every 6 months, you can still save by buying a new one.

And who wants to ride scooters you know are abused? Heck, I rode one and the brakes didn’t work.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#18

Post by TacticalTable » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

Of the e-scooter startups I've tried, Lime is my favorite. In my smaller city (Indianapolis) we just have Bird and Lime, and Bird's restrictions on hours, locations, and parking make them very difficult to use (They turn themselves off if they leave their range, and many pieces of downtown are considered 'out of bounds'). Meanwhile, the Limes are better distributed around the city, easier to park, and have much more generous boundaries. Bird has the stronger brand recognition, but that's about it.

I'm surprised that it was warmer climate cities that underperformed in the US, because I would have expected those to have a much better chance for profit, as cold winter seasons dramatically reduce scooter usage. Too much competition?

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#19

Post by hugs » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

ckuhl wrote: post #7

bosie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

I think the biggest advantage scooters have over ebikes is that for a lot of people, there’s a place to store a scooter at both ends of a commute (under a desk) but not necessarily secure bike storage.

Isn't this (under desk storage) why folding bikes exist?

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#20

Post by opportune » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

bosie wrote: post #6

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

Many electric scooter models fold into a small form factor, so they are easy to bring on public transit and you can bring it to your desk (making them much less likely to be stolen).

Also they have less of a learning curve compared to biking on roads, and are easier to maintain, IMO.