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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#31

Post by bduerst »

bransonf wrote: post #17
vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

I’ll try to do the math here. Assuming the following: Cost to buy: $500 Cost to charge $0.40/day (maybe generous) Cost to Rent: $2/day Rental Mileage: $0.15/min Assume 10mph average, (10 miles/day) $9/day Total: $11/day to rent 2x/week,50 weeks 100 days (200 rides): Buy: $540 Rent: $1100 No way it’s economical to rent scooters routinely. Even if you break your scooter every 6 months, you can still save by buying a ne…

Even with that napkin math, the value to not have to own the asset, insure it against theft, or carry it around constantly is still worth it to some consumers. The spontaneity of "hop on and ride, then forget about it" is the appeal.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#32

Post by hiccuphippo »

hinkley wrote: post #15

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market? For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

This is not counting all the people they "employ" to service their scooters. Hopefully the market is big enough to accommodate them into the competition.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#33

Post by tempsy »

hinkley wrote: post #15

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market? For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

companies like Uber, Lime, Bird, etc. have a lot of small regional offices in different cities that mostly employ operations and local marketing people that handle the grunt work with running these types of city-based companies. These aren't typical "tech" jobs and not typical "tech" offices.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#34

Post by jeppebemad »

jeffnappi wrote: post #21

Lime has the worst bikes on the planet - they are complete garbage compared to the Uber/JUMP bikes (and probably others). The Lime bikes seemed to constantly be falling apart and were actually pretty terrifying to ride. On the other hand, the JUMP bikes feel very robust and I feel safe riding them. I would rather walk half a mile to find a JUMP bike than ride a Lime bike. No wonder they are failing. Source: Rode both…

In copenhagen Lime is the most robust (and albeit clunky) of the 5-6 brands present. It seems they are the same as in your town. Wonder why our experience differ so much?

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#35

Post by roywiggins »

cnorthwood wrote: post #29
hinkley wrote: post #15

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market? For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

They may also have "independent contractors" to do the work

The guys who retrieve the scooters for these kinds of companies are "independent contractors."

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/18267128/lime-electric-sc...

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#36

Post by dustinmoris »

Johnny555 wrote: post #28
bransonf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll try to do the math here. Assuming the following: Cost to buy: $500 Cost to charge $0.40/day (maybe generous) Cost to Rent: $2/day Rental Mileage: $0.15/min Assume 10mph average, (10 miles/day) $9/day Total: $11/day to rent 2x/week,50 weeks 100 days (200 rides): Buy: $540 Rent: $1100 No way it’s economical to rent scooters routinely. Even if you break your scooter every 6 months, you can still save by buying a ne…

I think the advantage of rental is the ability to drop off or pick up anywhere -- you can ride a scooter to the office, walk or bus to a restaurant after work, then rent a different scooter home. Or you might take a scooter from work to the restaurant, and you don't need to worry about parking the rental scooter securely or carrying it around with you. But that only works if scooters are ubiquitous enough that you ca…

This model works with cars (e.g. ZipCar) but with scooters I don't see how this is possible, unless the entire city is quite literally littered with scooters.

If I have to walk 5-10 min to the nearest car which I can unlock from my phone and then use to drive 5 miles somewhere then it's great, but if I have to walk 5-10 minutes to the nearest scooter pickup so I can scooter somewhere for 5-10 minutes then it sort of defeats the whole point.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#38

Post by wongarsu »

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

As a tourist/traveler I love rental scooters. For commuting I would obviously buy my own, but when I travel somewhere I wouldn't want to carry my scooter everywhere. Just arriving at Frankfurt central station, stepping out of the train station and grabbing a scooter is a huge convenience if you want to get somewhere close-ish in the city.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#39

Post by 013a »

jeffnappi wrote: post #21

Lime has the worst bikes on the planet - they are complete garbage compared to the Uber/JUMP bikes (and probably others). The Lime bikes seemed to constantly be falling apart and were actually pretty terrifying to ride. On the other hand, the JUMP bikes feel very robust and I feel safe riding them. I would rather walk half a mile to find a JUMP bike than ride a Lime bike. No wonder they are failing. Source: Rode both…

Same story with their scooters IMO. I would rather walk a block or two and find a Bird than settle for a Lime. On at least one occassion my options were Grab a Lime or walk 10 blocks; I walked.

Though, I feel like the reasoning is opposite for the scooters; they're absolutely huge vehicles that were clearly built to last in the harsh environments they're deployed in, and in doing so gained a ton of weight and volume. They're slow. The brakes are often so strong that they could cause riders to loose balance from the negative acceleration. They manuver so poorly that I feel unsafe while riding them. The big reason why I love the gen-1 Bird scooters, as unreliable as they are, is because they're so damn nimble, I have zero issues taking super-tight turns and weaves, and often that's necessary in urban environments just to protect yourself from the hazards of broken roads or cars. The newest gen Bird scooters strike a decent balance between being lightweight, fast, and (I assume) durable to the extreme environment.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#40

Post by kortilla »

cnorthwood wrote: post #29
hinkley wrote: post #15

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market? For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

They may also have "independent contractors" to do the work

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