Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#271

Post by unapologetic » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

> What do you actually have to lose?

health care. It's a big problem. This is why many unions are pro-M4A. You start taking away the big things the company can hold over your head in a negotiation.

In tech we have those things you mention, mostly. We also have a labour market with massive demand. If that demand falls/supply increases then companies will start cutting costs.

When a lot of the people on HN actually experience some uncertainty, their attitudes will probably change.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#272

Post by burntoutfire » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #54

I would strongly consider supporting a video game union, if only to help formalize the things that the good shops do and bring those practices industry wide. Personally I haven't done a day of overtime in seven years and I feel reasonably compensated but there are clearly other places out there that are still exploiting their workers. Improving worker input into production schedules and creating clear guidelines arou…

I don't really understand this obsession with credits in the game dev industry. There's no credit list in GMail for example, and yet everyone is fine with it?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#273

Post by falcor84 » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

unapologetic wrote: post #239

reaperducer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". All the video game industry has to do is to give its workers better treatment than they would get under union stewardship. Problem solved. But I expect video games will follow the path of many other industries, and keep beating their mules until the mules revolt. It's a lesson that has played out publicly hundreds of times over the l…

Apparently if you just pay people a bit more and give them free lunch that's enough to placate people to the point they regard the very notion of collective bargaining as 'childish'.

TANSTAAFL

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#274

Post by unapologetic » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #207

jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

You are making seriously sweeping allegations, could you not? It's hard to have a serious discussion when someone goes generalizing 300 million people and all of their jobs. >* No vacation. >* No parental leave. >* No sick leave. All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. >At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear…

> you simply call out all Americans as being anti-union

Obviously not all, but there are millions of rabidly anti-union people like you.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#275

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

ianmobbs wrote: post #151

username90 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a big union care about a small company?

If it can't afford to provide for its employees, why should a small company exist?

> "If it can't afford to provide for its employees, why should a small company exist?"

If I rephrase that as "If a startup can't afford to provide for its employees, why should a startup exist?", it should be clear to HN readers why that is problematic. Without a way for new players to enter the market cheaply, you wind up with a stagnant industry fully of deeply entrenched players who are afraid to take creative risks. (Not unlike Hollywood, come to think of it.)

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#276

Post by naravara » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #138

hpoe wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creating more opportunities for young new grads to break in Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier, by increasing the commitment an employer is expected to make to an employee, and by making it harder to remove employees that need to be removed but can't because of their seniority with the union.

Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier My observation has been the opposite. I believe because the unions have an interest in increasing their membership, not letting it atrophy and decrease due to time and deaths. A union that doesn't have a growing membership is a union that will disappear. In fact, some unions I've seen ha…

>I believe because the unions have an interest in increasing their membership, not letting it atrophy and decrease due to time and deaths.

It really depends. The smaller the organizing unit, the more short-sighted they're going to be because they have less leverage and they benefit less from long-term big picture thinking. For example, if I'm a union that organizes machinists specializing in a specific type of tool then my focus is going to be on keeping this tool in place and these machinists employed, even if it's at the expense of new entrants or generational changes in technology. If the union is organized for an entire industrial sector, though, then their focus is on organizing and developing labor rights and practices for the sector as a whole rather than any specific shop.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#277

Post by unapologetic » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #228

chobeat wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. But even if it was just a single person, it would still be a tragedy and a problem to solve.

>Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. You just love your wide sweeping claims don't you? No it is not true for the vast majority of the american workforce. >You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Can we please not move the goal posts, I thought this was…

> that can be done at the legal level. You do not need unions to exist to do that!

Unions allow workers to wield political power collectively as well. Union endorsements are valuable, union money, union member donations. Instead of having billionaires like Bezos or the Koch brothers buying up media and giving millions to candidates to push their agenda, ordinary people can be heard.

Why do you think so many old school union people were outright socialists?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#278

Post by unapologetic » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

chobeat wrote: post #231

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. You just love your wide sweeping claims don't you? No it is not true for the vast majority of the american workforce. >You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Can we please not move the goal posts, I thought this was…

Unions were always the way to gain those rights: weekends, 8hours a day, abolition of child labour, they were all fights won by unions. Now USA have weak business unions and no more rights are gained. Same is happening is happening in Europe where neoliberal governments are disgregating the rights won by unions in the last 2 centuries. It's not moving the goal post: unions are about improving the conditions for worke…

More wrongthink.

How unfortunate.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#279

Post by friendlybus » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #209

friendlybus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am saying that running your own show or a show with other people you value working with does not need to be under the thumb of union rules or overarching corporate pressure. There is no scenario in entertainment where unions "keep to themselves". A union started will soak up the entire industry and now my show with people I respect, admire and fair equity shares now has time limits and controls none of us decided o…

> Implementing a union will benefit few but the union leaders. What the heck? This sounds like something out of a movie. Do you think union leaders get a cut of every member's pay or something?

In terms of political power, it will benefit few but the leaders.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#280

Post by unapologetic » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #162

jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

Americans are very used to switching jobs to take better options and do not suffer bad bosses for long. I would say it is pretty rare to actually have a job with no vacation or leave. Unions in the US can feel stifling, as they only rewarding if you can stick with the same job and position for a long time. It's not a very American mindset to stay with a job and make demands when you can just bounce to a slightly bett…

It's not a very American mindset because the unions have been stomped on and it's hard to find a decent job now.

Used to be that a (white cis male) person could go get a union job out of high school and they were set until a comfortable retirement with pension. Good luck finding that sort of security now.