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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#271

Post by jelliclesfarm »

linguae wrote: post #251
jpster wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour commute of the few places that would hire them. And yes, the “progressive” Bay Area, too. For anyone who wonders why the Bay has so few black people - the house I live in on the Peninsula was built in 1948. And its original deed forbade “colored people” from living in it. This was eventually overturned, I believ…

This is exactly correct. There's a wonderful late-1990s documentary on the history of East Palo Alto called "Dreams of a City: Creating East Palo Alto" that describes how the community was formed and ultimately became an incorporated city. Here is a clip that describes the discriminatory housing policies in the Peninsula that led to East Palo Alto becoming predominately black: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHppw20…

Many Asians and other immigrants often come to the United States without any generational wealth and build from scratch.

An example of someone everyone knows is Sundar Pitchai. The only way out of middle class and to go upwards is education. Not by speculative real estate activities.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#272

Post by lopmotr »

BuckRogers wrote: post #190
esotericn wrote: post #121

Though I imagine the prevalence is much higher in black youth, this is a general issue that goes beyond race. A stable upbringing with a family that you can use as role models. If you don't have that, you're in for an uphill struggle. If everyone around you is unemployed, or works in part time unskilled labour - if you're moving from home to home all of the time - if you have no bedroom - if your family argues, or yo…

You wouldn't be a fuck-up. No one should be regarded as a fuck up. You'd be the result of a fucked up society. In a healthy society, people should end up nominally productive, cooperative and happy or content. We've taken the dog eat dog mentality and sell-something modus operandi too far, powered by unnecessary and unhealthy levels of greed, even for the winners. Most of our time over the last million years of evolu…

Those ancient people without stable homes also didn't get education or jobs beyond basic skills and tribal fighting. A hostile childhood environment is probably useful for making hostile tough men who can survive in a hostile world. But not for a happy life in civilization.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#273

Post by kypro »

A few things here:

> It is important for mentors and others looking to implement solutions for Black students to come from within our own communities. Studies have shown that students do better in class and have less disruptive behaviour when educators look like them, and mentorship is no exception.

Well this completely goes against the narrative that more diversity in schools is good. If people are literally biologically wired to be racist (at least in some sense of the word) and now people are advocating that blacks are taught by blacks and whites are taught by whites as a solution to the diversity problem then that's a little worrying.

On a more controversial note though, I also wonder why we expect peoples who have evolved separately for thousands of years with significant genetic variations to preform equally. There was an article by the New York Times recently that discuses why Ashkenazi Jews tend to perform out preform academically: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/27/opinion/jewish-culture-ge...

Unfortunately from the reading I've done on this topic, it does seem the author is probably right that there is a genetic element to all of this. Obviously it's not what people want to hear and the author was predictably slammed for writing it, but most intelligence researchers would agree that genetic plays a large role in intelligence and again, unfortunately, not all groups preform equally.

It does seem possible that part of the explanation as to why Whites and Blacks under preform East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews academically is simply genetics. And if that's the case, do we allow the best to rise to the top, or do we discriminate against Jews and Asians as the author proposes by segregating education or, as something universities do, discriminate against applicants based on race.

I'm sure I'll get down voted for but this won't get better until we start recognising and addressing certain realities.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#274

Post by aaomidi »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #269
aaomidi wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because they didn't immigrate. They were ripped from their homes.

> " Yes because they didn't immigrate. They were ripped from their homes. " Events that occurred well over a century ago. None alive today were "ripped from their homes"; they were born and raised in the US and most know next to nothing of their former homelands. And immigrants are ripped from their homes as well; they may have chosen to leave their homeland but they are bereft of all they knew.

Yeah...no

Culture is generational, it doesn't exist in a specific individual.

Considering African Americans are still discriminated against everywhere, they never had time to develop a strong local culture.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#275

Post by scarface74 »

lostapathy wrote: post #265
scarface74 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many Black fathers are “absent” because they are incarcerated because of the “War on Drugs”. Study after study shows that minorities are given longer sentences and even stopped more than non minorities. When drugs were affecting the “inner city” it was all about “being tough on crime”. When it started affecting “middle America” it became about “treating drug abuse as a disease” and “increasing social services.”

I'm not disputing this, at all, but have a weird observation about it that doesn't make sense. I've been to Ft Worth a few times the last few years, and there have been protests about how police "protect and serve white folks only" each time near the area I stayed. But what I can't get my head around is that nearly every cop I saw (near the protest or otherwise) was themselves a minority. So do we have a system where…

I didn’t read the report so I don’t have any opinion, but Texas passed a law concerning racial profiling.

https://police.fortworthtexas.gov/Public/racial-profiling-re...

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#276

Post by camdenlock »

wayoutthere wrote: post #213
giardini wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its called "sarcasm".

Sarcastic racism is still racism. It perpetuates the hateful stereotypes without claiming them, which almost seems worse. I stopped being sarcastic in general when a friend pointed out that it's usually based in some form of hatred -- whether of yourself or someone else.

Oh dear...

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#277

Post by dang »

gjs278 wrote: post #223
dang wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a legitimate point here but if you introduce it with snarky one-liners like "Or, you know, fathers", you damage both the conversation and the community. Please don't do that. Instead, please follow the site guidelines, which include: " Don't be snarky. " " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

there’s legitimate ways to moderate and copy pasting your condescending bullshit isn’t one of them. please don’t do that.

If you'd like to make some suggestions about how to improve, I'd be interested to hear them.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#278

Post by bittercynic »

war1025 wrote: post #242
Pywarrior wrote: post #183

mentors to instill discipline?

I think what you are hitting up against here is that the "discipline" you are referring to refers to structure and accountability for their choices. The "discipline" referred to by the article more often boils down to punishment for misdeeds. One form builds up a person into a better version of themselves. The other is intended to break the spirit of the person and make them submissive.

This is a super important point, and I've never seen it expressed more clearly. Unfortunately, many adults who are responsible for caring for children do not seem to understand that distinction, or they are too overwhelmed and spread too thin to apply that knowledge effectively.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#279

Post by memling »

fersho311 wrote: post #106

About me: I'm asian, 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, I always thought Black people seemed so cool and funny. They exude confidence and it intimidated my to make friends with them. Now I teach people coding before and after my work as a full time software engineer. A few of my students are black. I had a hard time working with them. Later, as I became friends with them, I realized they are very self conscious a…

I would recommend cultivating ignorance as something of an asset. the fun problems don't have clean answers, and it's common that we have to explore areas about which we are not knowledgeable. that process is incredible once you embrace your ignorance as an indication that you can learn something new.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#280

Post by iknowalot »

zchrykng wrote: post #115
wjn0 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> higher crime rates Source? Everything I've read suggests that crime rates are pretty much the same across race and ethnicity when controlling for economic status. The primary variable is contact with the justice system, i.e. getting caught.

Everything I've read also indicates that it is mostly or entirely driven by economic status. White people who grow up poor and/or with single mothers are also highly likely to end up in prison compared to the normal population. This isn't about ethnicity, it is about economics and culture. It only disproportionately affects black people because of historical trends and welfare programs decades back that encouraged si…

Average white US citizen has $1,000,000 in wealth, the average black person $500. Just had to own the plot of free land available to settlers (stolen from natives) for 100+ years to reach that mark $1m. No rocket science or brain surgery involved.

This was planned maliciously, not an unintended consequence. If you learn anything about US history and the people who ran this country know that they wanted the outcomes we see (many south african partners of the US had similar goals).

Blaming it on culture, family, IQ, etc has long been a cover for Europeans that have been robbing Africans for the better part of 6 centuries now. The Chinese & Indians were also tarred in a similar fashion when we were robbing them blind.

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