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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#191

Post by [deleted] »

throwno wrote: post #186
JshWright wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimes are indeed crimes. The problem is, whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates, but blacks are significantly more likely to be arrested. Based on your comment, it seems like you haven't done much independent reading on this topic... Here's a place to start: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-min...

> whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates Not really though. From the primary source: MORE THAN 100 DAYS OF USE IN PAST 12 MONTHS white: 4.5% black: 6.1%

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#192

Post by jpster »

wayoutthere wrote: post #48
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

There are many, many reasons why this is the case; but they were almost all a product of racist social engineering in the 20th century. And when I say racist, I mean people whose main argument was the genetic inferiority of black people. Progressives consistently caved to their demands under threat of violence. Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour co…

> Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour commute of the few places that would hire them.

And yes, the “progressive” Bay Area, too. For anyone who wonders why the Bay has so few black people - the house I live in on the Peninsula was built in 1948. And its original deed forbade “colored people” from living in it. This was eventually overturned, I believe in the 60s. Given the housing values nowadays, how much generational wealth have blacks missed out on due to this? It’s not as though they weren’t here. After all, they’ve been in this country since its inception. Just like whites, blacks came westward. In the Bay they specifically also helped fill the demand for US shipbuilders during WWII. But systematically denied from one of the biggest wealth generating sources America had to offer in the 20th century (Bay real estate). And this also means their descendants are not in the position to benefit from the Bay’s 21st century wealth generation source (tech).

Many people do not know this racist history of the “progressive” Bay Area.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#193

Post by throwno »

JshWright wrote: post #129
zchrykng wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can argue all we want about how ineffective and/or misguided the War on Drugs has been, but that doesn't change that fact that crimes are crimes. Were some of the sentencing guidelines structured in a racist way? Maybe, I've heard people say that and don't have any evidence showing the opposite, but that is a side issue.

Crimes are indeed crimes. The problem is, whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates, but blacks are significantly more likely to be arrested. Based on your comment, it seems like you haven't done much independent reading on this topic... Here's a place to start: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-min...

> whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates

Not really though. From the primary source for marijuana:

MORE THAN 100 DAYS OF USE IN PAST 12 MONTHS white: 4.5% black: 6.1%

Now for coke:

MORE THAN 100 DAYS OF USE IN PAST 12 MONTHS white: 0.1 black: 0.3

Now for crack:

MORE THAN 100 DAYS OF USE IN PAST 12 MONTHS white: 0.0 black: 0.3

Ok, ok, how about heroin? We know those white boys just can't get enough smack right?

MORE THAN 100 DAYS OF USE IN PAST 12 MONTHS white: 0.1 black: 0.2

Nope. Not sure how people can interpret these numbers to be "equal rates" when habitual daily use numbers are multiples higher for blacks.

https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/quicktables/quickconfig.do?34481...

That Vox article is being misleading when they frame it based on "reported using the drug in the last year" because doing coke once on New Years is a lot different that doing coke daily. Looking at the daily use stats their statement that "In 2007, black people were 3.6 times more likely to be arrested for drugs than white people." doesn't seem so extremely disproportionate considering the daily usage is in some cases 3x as much. Very dishonest article.

Sorry for double post, it wouldn't let me edit the other one for more clarity.

Edit: Downvoters care to counter?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#194

Post by bsanr2 »

Strang wrote: post #170
bsanr2 wrote: post #169

As much as HN's readers need to see articles like this, I don't know if the sophistication levels on this topic are high enough to handle the discussion that's ensued. "Or, you know, fathers," is a... disappointing take, to say the least.

What did you find disappointing about the comment? Why not reply to it?

It was meant to be exemplary of the tone of the comment section writ large, and not a direct challenge to that particular comment. I'm dismayed that the level of discourse here matches, approximately, those on certain imageboards which shall not be named. That is to say, for their expertise in technical discussions, HN commenters seem to be woefully unprepared for those related to race and society, on a basic data level.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#195

Post by crimsonalucard »

fersho311 wrote: post #106

About me: I'm asian, 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, I always thought Black people seemed so cool and funny. They exude confidence and it intimidated my to make friends with them. Now I teach people coding before and after my work as a full time software engineer. A few of my students are black. I had a hard time working with them. Later, as I became friends with them, I realized they are very self conscious a…

I wonder why a lot of asians have this racial inferiority complex. I (being asian myself) grew up in an affluent asian dominated neighborhood of Cupertino. I had black, white and asian friends growing up and I never thought too much of racial issues. Maybe because in my schools asian americans were largely the majority. Again, I had the same experience going to school at UCLA which was largely populated mostly by asians.

However coming back to the bay area a decade later and making a lot of friends with local asians who grew up in San Francisco I am seeing huge racial inferiority complexes among asian males and females.

It's disgustingly huge. Among asian males racism manifests itself as hatred against white people for their white privilege and they talk openly about being scared of black people because they're all criminals. It's nuts. Note that this attitude mostly manifests itself among the native asian SF crowd who grew up here, not the tech migrants from outside of the city.

The other thing is racism manifests itself differently among asian females in the most pathetic display of inferiority I have ever seen in my life. The majority of single asian females in SF prefer dating white people over their own race. It's not even a superficial taste fetish either, literally a huge amount of asian females view their own race as too inferior and too weak to date. I don't know whether to blame the asian males or asian females for this level of patheticism.

I read posts from asians above and I'm astonished... I'm literally thinking what planet is this guy from? Then I realize that I'm from cupertino, I'm the guy who grew up on a different planet.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#196

Post by bsanr2 »

trentnix wrote: post #187
bsanr2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Such systems of discrimination surely aren't more powerful now How do you figure? Is it easier or harder to fight discrimination in, say, employment when, "We don't hire negroes," is stated upfront, compared to when black applicants are denied for "cultural fit" reasons? >something else is clearly doing the lion's share of destruction. Again, how do you figure?

>How do you figure? Is it easier or harder to fight discrimination in, say, employment when, "We don't hire negroes," is stated upfront, compared to when black applicants are denied for "cultural fit" reasons? Everywhere I've worked professionally I've had black coworkers. Everywhere I've hired considered and hired black applicants. I've had black supervisors. I've had black colleagues. I've had black reports. And th…

I don't think you fully answered either of my questions. I appreciate that your limited personal experience is closer to what we would like to see, at least in your telling of it.

I still await your further thoughts.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#197

Post by dennis_jeeves »

lopmotr wrote: post #157
jakear wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that a human with black skin is predetermined to commit crime at a higher rate? Or might there be some confounding variables, such as poverty, caused by hundreds/thousands of years of institutional racism?

You're confusing ethnicity with skin color. The common meaning of "black" isn't "dark skin color", it depends on ancestry. For example, Indians aren't considered black, no matter how black their skin. Blacks do have lower IQ than whites on average, and that's correlated with criminality. IQ is partly hereditary. So yes, it's quite likely that a randomly chosen black is predetermined to commit more crime in future tha…

>Blacks do have lower IQ than whites on average, and that's correlated with criminality. IQ is partly hereditary

Lopmotr, you think this will go down well with an average HNer here :) ? You have been downvoted for what is generally considered a 'fact' among people who have closely looked at IQs. I have upvoted you.

Readers, this observation is not to be conflated with racism. Two groups that separately evolved will necessarily have statistically different IQs. You could tell me that blacks have _more_ IQ than the whites and I'll listen. But if you tell me that blacks and whites have near identical IQs, I would be questioning your understanding of biology. Biology is not egalitarian.

Notes: I'm fully aware that I have used the terms black/white pretty broadly. There are various ethnic groups in each category and sometimes the variations within a category can be higher than compared to another category. While the average IQ score of 'race' A might be less than the average score of 'race' B. The IQ score of an ethnic group in A might be higher than all of Bs ethnic groups.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#198

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

esotericn wrote: post #121

Though I imagine the prevalence is much higher in black youth, this is a general issue that goes beyond race. A stable upbringing with a family that you can use as role models. If you don't have that, you're in for an uphill struggle. If everyone around you is unemployed, or works in part time unskilled labour - if you're moving from home to home all of the time - if you have no bedroom - if your family argues, or yo…

>Though I imagine the prevalence is much higher in black youth, this is a general issue that goes beyond race.

It certainly does. I'm having trouble digging up primary sources I've read on this before (there's a ton of secondary by searching "Consequences of fatherless childhoods", "consequences of single-parent households" and similar on DuckDuckGo), but studies are showing that children being brought up in single-parent or "fragile" households fare worse than their counterparts brought up in two-parent, comparatively stable households.

The issue is likely significantly compounding generation after generation. It's not really a surprise that children need a stable household with good role models at the helm though, and the absence of which being damaging.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#199

Post by BuckRogers »

jenkins6g wrote: post #30
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

>I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights.

I avoid talking matters of race as much as I can, because I don't want that person to feel that they're a "black" person in my mind or view. Because if I were a black man, I wouldn't want to define me. So I don't let that define those I contact. I strive to treat everyone the same. Most of the time, it works, you CAN train yourself to treat everyone the same. If you think "black" when you see a black person, then you need to keep working at it, like everything in life. After you're done, you'll still have some level of innate subconscious racism that comes with human nature, but the key is to not actively embrace or act on it.

That said, I work with a black guy (we're both developers). His dad was never around, he is a wanderer today and he called him a deadbeat. He said something about his dad being resentful that he turned out so well, and had nothing to do with it. My colleague attributes his success to his mom.

In his case, it sounded like his dad was absent by choice. My coworker is not a deadbeat dad, has children, an expensive home and a wife. Hard worker, as you have to be to be a successful developer. I think being born with a good mind helps, as well as a stable home even if it's just a mother. A little luck (circumstances) helps all of us.

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