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E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

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Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#221

Post by djaychela »

jdavis703 wrote: post #28
retrovm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are for sports. Ebikes have a ~50% market share in Belgium where approximately nobody wears a helmet ever. It's really not an issue.

Yes and there’s an analogy here between car commuters and car racers. We don’t expect “normal” car drivers to wear helmets. But professional racers absolutely wear helmets. Even in the case of commuters, a helmet could save your life in an accident. For any drivers who thinks bike commuters need helmets, I would encourage you to also get car helmets for you and your loved ones: https://www.amazon.com/RaceQuip-253116-…

Helmets in cars aren't without issue, though. They restrict your vision and situational awareness via hearing. I was a rally driver for about 10 years, and the MSA (UK Motorsport body) banned drivers on road sections from wearing helmets - both because it was a PR nightmare, but also because of the issues with vision (in full face helmets) and hearing (although I appreciate many people have loud music on in cars, or wear headphones, etc).

Also, you really -want- to have a helmet on in a race car - you'll typically have an unpadded roll cage right by your head, and the FIA-approved padding for roll cages is designed to work well with helmets, not with heads. I used to dread long road sections on rallies as I knew that an accident would be a real mess if there was any contact with the cage. There's more room in a road car, and there's padding / airbags etc to cushion you from impact on hard structures.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#222

Post by alisonatwork »

asdff wrote: post #211
alisonatwork wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some simple rules pedestrians can follow that make commuting easier for everyone. Move at a steady pace. Don't stop or change lanes without doing a shoulder check. Look both ways before crossing the flow of traffic. This not only makes it easier to share the sidewalk with vehicles, it also improves the flow when there are a lot of foot commuters with different walking speeds. I live in a city where pedestri…

That sort of rule of thumb works fine with an abled bodied sober and alert adult, but throw in someone with a disability, an elderly person, a toddler, and suddenly it makes far more sense to have the bike/moped on the road and just offer the gutter at the very least for a bike lane. A road bike can kill a toddler.

Usually the way it works here is if a rider sees a kid or older person then they will slow down to walking pace and only pass when it's safe. Pedestrians still have right of way, after all.

I am not against dedicated roads for bikes (although depending on the city's density, they can just end up as a second sidewalk), but I also think it shouldn't be treated as a prerequisite for developing a bike culture.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#223

Post by doliveira »

atoav wrote: post #220
fulafel wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you as a life long cyclist underestimate how sweaty and slow-going it is for someone who hasn't done it before and isn't physically active.

I already factored that in. I sometimes get asked by non-cyclists who wanna use it more what to do and their number one concern is always getting hit by a car and nearly never getting sweaty (which really only happens if you are either going too fast or are incredibly unsporty). The not-getting-hit-by-a-car argument is quite understandable to me: if you don't feel comfortable and feel like you lack the awareness need…

If it is above 24 degrees Celsius out there most people will be sweating already just by cycling normally. It's not just when you're going too fast. Either you've lived in incredibly flat and cold cities or people just don't feel comfortable talking about sweating.

I used to cycle (about a year) to my previous work, where there was a place I could take a shower afterwards. I arrived there absolutely soaked up, and so do most people.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#224

Post by Grue3 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117
alistairSH wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia actually did require helmets for all cyclists. And cycling rates went down.

Bummer, but at the same time it's hard to argue with a measure designed to save lives. If seatbelts wouldn't have been compulsory for decades I think people would have a hard time accepting them as mandatory.

> it's hard to argue with a measure designed to save lives.

No, it's easy to argue because cars inarguably cause way more deaths than bikes. So when people switch to cars from bikes, it's indirectly killing more people. Any measure that prevents bike use leads to more deaths.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#225

Post by Grue3 »

chinesempire wrote: post #201
jdavis703 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly call out bikes who don’t give the right of way to pedestrians in the crosswalk. That said, unless someone is already frail being hit by a bike is nothing like being hit by a car. I’ve had two red-light running bicyclists crash in to me (once while biking, once while skateboarding). I’ve also been in three separate cars that got rear-ended (none of those times was I driving). The level of pain is an order…

> being hit by a bike is nothing like being hit by a car You're completely right! Cars are engineered to reduce the damages of a direct impact. Bikes are not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_safety_through_vehi... Studies agree that the damages are mostly caused by speed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24435732 E-bikes can go at very high speeds (30km/h is more than enough to be deadly) and can do it eff…

And yet how many people die from being hit by bikes? It's barely even an issue. Even in European cities where you can step on the wrong side of a sidewalk and instantly get smashed into. It's an imaginary problem.

>Add to that the fact that a car can break or avoid obstacles in a much more efficient way than a bike could ever do

That's obviously false. Just consider the stuff that BMX bikes can do in terms of maneuvering. Or even normal bikes. Try driving on a car through a busy pedestrian street. On a bike it's a piece of cake, and you won't have to stop even once.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#226

Post by atoav »

doliveira wrote: post #223
atoav wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already factored that in. I sometimes get asked by non-cyclists who wanna use it more what to do and their number one concern is always getting hit by a car and nearly never getting sweaty (which really only happens if you are either going too fast or are incredibly unsporty). The not-getting-hit-by-a-car argument is quite understandable to me: if you don't feel comfortable and feel like you lack the awareness need…

If it is above 24 degrees Celsius out there most people will be sweating already just by cycling normally. It's not just when you're going too fast. Either you've lived in incredibly flat and cold cities or people just don't feel comfortable talking about sweating. I used to cycle (about a year) to my previous work, where there was a place I could take a shower afterwards. I arrived there absolutely soaked up, and so…

So did I when I was taking the sometimes incredibly sauna-like subway. What I meant was: you do ‘t necessarilly sweat a ton more when you cycle compared to other forms of transport.

Not all people e.g. can park their car in the shade, subways and busses can be more humid than the jungle etc. If you cycle very relaxed you shouldn’t sweat more than anybody else.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#227

Post by bagacrap »

siffland wrote: post #18

I ride a motorcycle to work almost everyday (today's 47 degree ride was a bit brisk) and i have to say, drivers don't look out for bikes, and this is a major city (San Antonio). My big issues with motorized bicycles are lanes to ride and rules of the road. I see people riding them on sidewalks, in streets, and in bike lanes. It is almost like people on motorcycles who ride in the break down lane or lane split (both o…

It's not exactly easy to just "put down" infrastructure. In fact that is the single hardest piece of this puzzle. Technology can't defeat the will of the people, which is still firmly behind dedicating as much space as possible to driving and parking cars [in Texas and most of the US].

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#228

Post by bagacrap »

unicornporn wrote: post #216
choward wrote: post #99

The main reason I prefer renting e-bikes instead of using my own bike isn't the electric power. It's the convenience and not having to worry about my bike getting stolen. If I only want to bike one way and not round trip, no worries. If I was to own an e-bike, I would want to not have to worry about it getting stolen. Everything would have to be like e-bikes you rent. All the parts would need to be integrated and not…

Get an electric Brompton?

I've looked into folding electrics so I could take one on the BART. Many of them are too small if you're 6' or more, and the others seem like a PITA to actually portage anywhere like up stairs. Even if you can get one into your workplace though that doesn't solve the problem for anywhere else you might go, like a restaurant. And if you're only concerned about work I would hope to Ja that your employer has secure bicycle parking since it's far cheaper/more compact than car parking and probably correlates to healthier employees.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#229

Post by meej »

riversflow wrote: post #187
meej wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got this entirely backwards. E-Bikes are an enabling factor for overweight people to start using bikes more. I know because I am one, my BMI is 33 and it's one of the main driving factors behind my decision to acquire an e-bike in 2018. (Another driving factor is the fact that my commute home involves an elevation gain of ~550ft, which would be tough even if I was not obese. I had been a bike commuter when I l…

Nice! I just don’t think you fully appreciate how privileged your position is. Giving up car ownership is extremely privileged. You have a good, salaried job, with I’m assuming flexible and encouraging employers. You have enough money for therapy and urban rent (and Blazers tickets!) and enough free time to bike everywhere, and I’m guessing decent health insurance to boot. You also are completely devoid of responsibi…

While I agree that I am privileged, I disagree that biking, particularly to work, is. The data bears this out: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/9/5883823/its-not-just-hipsters-o...

Some of your arguments ring true for traditional bikes but I think they are less true for e-bikes. They're faster, so you don't need enough free time to bike everywhere, you need 20 minutes instead of 15, and it's often much easier to find parking. It's a lot easier to physically exert yourself to get to work when the bike reduces the amount of exertion. And a bike ride provides just as much, if not more, respite than driving a car -- you're not frustrated stuck in traffic and you get a nice endorphin rush.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#230

Post by IshKebab »

atoav wrote: post #214
IshKebab wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate how lazy people are. Hell, I cycle every day to work and there are still plenty of times where I wish I could drive instead because I don't feel like bothering. Ebikes will absolutely change that. Risk is a factor but not a hugely significant one (at least in Europe - possibly in America where you'd have to be a bit crazy to cycle on most roads). The main barrier to ebikes being popular is t…

Lazy people won’t take an ebike unless all the infrastructure favours cyclists and everything else is worse. Ebikes are cool for older people tho: I know a guy who has one and he told me, since he has it he hardly uses anything else. His incentive was to be able to cycle normally, but take the electric aid when there is a steep hill or when he gets tired. I think this is a much more realistic use case: people who rea…

> The real lazy ones you descripe will take the subway, the train or the car if they can afford it.

In most cities there is no subway or train. And cars have significant downsides in cities even if you can afford them - you have to deal with traffic and parking, and you have to take the car with you - no one-way journeys.

Why do you think electric scooters are popular?

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