E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need • Hacker News Board

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#211

Post by asdff » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

alisonatwork wrote: post #195

downerending wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not on sidewalks. Pedestrians can and do change direction on a dime, and on a sidewalk, they always have the right of way. Adding high-speed (i.e., greater than five mph) vehicles to that mix is a recipe for disaster.

There are some simple rules pedestrians can follow that make commuting easier for everyone. Move at a steady pace. Don't stop or change lanes without doing a shoulder check. Look both ways before crossing the flow of traffic. This not only makes it easier to share the sidewalk with vehicles, it also improves the flow when there are a lot of foot commuters with different walking speeds. I live in a city where pedestri…

That sort of rule of thumb works fine with an abled bodied sober and alert adult, but throw in someone with a disability, an elderly person, a toddler, and suddenly it makes far more sense to have the bike/moped on the road and just offer the gutter at the very least for a bike lane. A road bike can kill a toddler.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#212

Post by asdff » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 7:18 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #146

Truly written by a non-disabled twentysomething in Southern California who gets his groceries by delivery service. Don't get me wrong, I bike every day there's no ice on the streets and really enjoy driving those Uber e-bikes too, but seriously: any mobilty solution that's aimed as a "revolution" can't go around people with disabilities, heavy rain, northern winters, multiple kids, 10km+ commuters, elderly people and…

So what is the solution for the places you state? Engineer it.

6 million people drive a car every day in LA. The scale is huge. Getting some sliver of the pie off of fossil fuels and single occupant vehicles would make a huge dent in congestion and pollution, and make it easier for people with disabilities/kids/junk who need cars to move around the city.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#213

Post by asdff » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

milkytron wrote: post #93

For those who have e-bikes, what are your thoughts on riding them without the motor assistance? Is it heavy and difficult? Do they have battery regeneration from breaking? I've been on the fence about getting one, and normally ride a crappy hybrid bike to and from work every day, which an e-bike would be useful for. But I also do 40+ mile trips on weekends and am afraid that if the battery dies, I'll be lugging a hea…

This is why I think the moped is in practice the better choice until this tech matures. Over 100mpg isn't bad, won't leave you stranded, and isn't as much of a magnet for theft.

I did see an ad for some electric moped with removable batteries. You simply pull up to a gas station and swap your empties for charged ones, just like propane tanks. No waiting on a charger, but it would require total adoption like gasoline did for it to be practical.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#214

Post by atoav » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 7:27 AM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #189

atoav wrote: post #155

As a life long cyclist (half of that time in big european cities, half on the countryside) I doubt that the muscle power to propell your bicycle forward is the issue that blocks a wide adoption of the vehicle. As far as I can tell the (by far) biggest issue is the perceived risk involved which boils down to mostly two things: infrastructure and adoption. Better infrastructure demands you not to be as hardcore to star…

I think you underestimate how lazy people are. Hell, I cycle every day to work and there are still plenty of times where I wish I could drive instead because I don't feel like bothering. Ebikes will absolutely change that. Risk is a factor but not a hugely significant one (at least in Europe - possibly in America where you'd have to be a bit crazy to cycle on most roads). The main barrier to ebikes being popular is t…

Lazy people won’t take an ebike unless all the infrastructure favours cyclists and everything else is worse.

Ebikes are cool for older people tho: I know a guy who has one and he told me, since he has it he hardly uses anything else. His incentive was to be able to cycle normally, but take the electric aid when there is a steep hill or when he gets tired.

I think this is a much more realistic use case: people who really want to cycle, but live in hilly areas, feel insecure about their energy managment or have long distances to cover.

The real lazy ones you descripe will take the subway, the train or the car if they can afford it. Because sitting in the wind and weather on a bicycle takes a little bit of motivation, regardless of electrification. Having the courage to drive through a big city plays a even bigger role, as I mentioned. This obviously depends on where you are — certain cities are a charm to cycle in, where others make you feel downright suicidal even as a live long cyclist.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#215

Post by unicornporn » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

novok wrote: post #44

AJ007 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone have head injury statistics? I know falls are a major cause of preventable death in the US, but I don’t even know how those break down between someone on a bike vs an old person falling over.

It's not just about death, it's also about brain damage. A broken bone is NBD compared to a TBI with often permanent damage. You can lock helmets with bikes if you want. I used to lock my helmet with my u-lock on my bike, so if they cut off the helmet, then it isn't a very useful helmet. I now bring it with me in my bag mostly for hygenic reasons although.

Another alternative: https://hovding.se/

Very popular here in Sweden. A little easier to stuff in your bag.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#216

Post by unicornporn » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 8:19 AM UTC

choward wrote: post #99

The main reason I prefer renting e-bikes instead of using my own bike isn't the electric power. It's the convenience and not having to worry about my bike getting stolen. If I only want to bike one way and not round trip, no worries. If I was to own an e-bike, I would want to not have to worry about it getting stolen. Everything would have to be like e-bikes you rent. All the parts would need to be integrated and not…

Get an electric Brompton?

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#217

Post by fulafel » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #155

As a life long cyclist (half of that time in big european cities, half on the countryside) I doubt that the muscle power to propell your bicycle forward is the issue that blocks a wide adoption of the vehicle. As far as I can tell the (by far) biggest issue is the perceived risk involved which boils down to mostly two things: infrastructure and adoption. Better infrastructure demands you not to be as hardcore to star…

I suspect you as a life long cyclist underestimate how sweaty and slow-going it is for someone who hasn't done it before and isn't physically active.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#218

Post by fulafel » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:01 AM UTC

as-j wrote: post #45

I think this would be amazing for some cities. I've used a electric motorcycle/scooter to commute around San Francisco for 3 years now, and it made me fall in love with the city again. I've used Jump e-bikes to get around as well instead of Uber/Lyfts when I can. (I'd use them more, but their service area stop a mile from my house) Sadly I think SF is a good special case where it works well most of the year: 1. City…

I think your 1 & 2 aren't worries really: most cities are small, and experience shows that weather isn't really an object (central/northern europe has the bicycling capitals). People are much less finicky about outdoors activities in non-optimal weather in places that don't have californian weather :)

We don't necessarily need an one-size-fits-all solution to fix traffic emissions, it's fine if people in different cities end up doing different things.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#219

Post by fulafel » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:17 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #146

Truly written by a non-disabled twentysomething in Southern California who gets his groceries by delivery service. Don't get me wrong, I bike every day there's no ice on the streets and really enjoy driving those Uber e-bikes too, but seriously: any mobilty solution that's aimed as a "revolution" can't go around people with disabilities, heavy rain, northern winters, multiple kids, 10km+ commuters, elderly people and…

I think your list is prejudiced, people bike in all of those circumstances.

Here are bikes for disabled people: https://www.vanraam.com/en-gb/advice-inspiration/news/bike-f...

Similar trike type bicycles have been used for ages by elderly & disabled people. In northern winters even with more than 10kg of cargo :)

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#220

Post by atoav » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

fulafel wrote: post #217

atoav wrote: post #155

As a life long cyclist (half of that time in big european cities, half on the countryside) I doubt that the muscle power to propell your bicycle forward is the issue that blocks a wide adoption of the vehicle. As far as I can tell the (by far) biggest issue is the perceived risk involved which boils down to mostly two things: infrastructure and adoption. Better infrastructure demands you not to be as hardcore to star…

I suspect you as a life long cyclist underestimate how sweaty and slow-going it is for someone who hasn't done it before and isn't physically active.

I already factored that in. I sometimes get asked by non-cyclists who wanna use it more what to do and their number one concern is always getting hit by a car and nearly never getting sweaty (which really only happens if you are either going too fast or are incredibly unsporty).

The not-getting-hit-by-a-car argument is quite understandable to me: if you don't feel comfortable and feel like you lack the awareness needed to move safely on a bicycle taking it slow and easy is the rational thing to do (electric bikes won't help you with that).

I also get the weather-is-always-shitty-and-I-need-to-look-good argument (although this can be solved by having the appropriate rain-gear).

What I usually don't get (in the case of average health people without any blocking issues) is the sweaty thing: Energy wise cycling is more efficient than walking (unless you go at high speeds where air resistance very quickly starts to get a thing). If you don't go at top speed and feel confident with staying at your pace this should make you sweat less than walking there, even if you are physically untrained (queue pictures of the countless pensioners on bicycles).

And if you are physically untrained, cycling is perfect to improve your health, because it won't strain your joints and tendons as much as e.g. walking or running, unless (as mentioned) you get into an accident, but these are usually much more dangerous with electrified bikes, because it involves people going at speeds they can't handle.

My former argument was: the issue why people don't take the bicycle (in my experience) has less to do with sweat and much more with fear of traffic/accidents/weather. This obviously depends a lot on where you live, how "normal" it is to take the bike there and maybe even on the season.