E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need • Hacker News Board

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#151

Post by wffurr » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

riversflow wrote: post #138

This is a fantasy in the US, change my view. We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people. And, as other comments point out, there would have to be a sacrifice in terms of automobiles for this to truly work. I find it highly doubtful that Americans would be willing to make that trade. Also, I think that if it came up there would be significant push back from groups you wouldn’t expect, like the disabled or union t…

I don't think weight comes into it. The primary issue the 60% of people who fall into the "interested but concerned" category cite is safety around cars.

The way to fix that is with a multi-faceted approach of engineering (protected bicycle facilities, dedicated bicycle signals at intersections), education (classes for both drivers and cyclists that focus on appropriate behavior around bicycles), enforcement (focused on those with the ability to do the most harm, which is to say car drivers), encouragement (bike to work week! December bike light giveaways! Financial incentives to meet or exceed those available to drivers or transit-takers), and equity (making all of these things available to all citizens, not just a privileged few).

The League of American Bicyclists has a nice write-up on the 6 Es, as it's called, https://bikeleague.org/content/5-es

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#152

Post by valtism » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

siffland wrote: post #18

I ride a motorcycle to work almost everyday (today's 47 degree ride was a bit brisk) and i have to say, drivers don't look out for bikes, and this is a major city (San Antonio). My big issues with motorized bicycles are lanes to ride and rules of the road. I see people riding them on sidewalks, in streets, and in bike lanes. It is almost like people on motorcycles who ride in the break down lane or lane split (both o…

>We already had/have a HUGE problem with the escooters, people getting run down by kids on the sidewalks and riding them in traffic downtown.

How much of a huge problem is that that you have seen personally? I personally have found that everyone loves to complain about them, but I never find much evidence of people being run down by them (in what I've seen)

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#153

Post by wffurr » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

big_chungus wrote: post #24

heyflyguy wrote: post #8

Seems pie in the sky to get adoption of e-bikes in places like my home state of Texas. Our city has e-bikes for rent all along the city biking system, very cheap too! These bikes are available for rent nearly all of the time, except for when we close down a few streets for the spring fair. So, adoption isn't going to happen very fast in places where there is no appetite. We have cheap gas here and A/C in our cars.

You're right that A/C and heat is a big factor; forget being able to shower there, no one likes exercising in one hundred ten-degree heat. Distance is a problem too, though: in cities lots of people commute 40+ miles to work each way, which isn't really feasible by bike. Thinking about when I got started working as hourly, I would never have spent two or three times the time because that would have a serious opportun…

e-bikes help substantially with heat. Less effort for the same speed means more wind and less sweating.

No one is proposing e-bikes for 40+ mile commutes. That can only be replaced by commuter rail and in-fill housing.

Half of all car trips are less than 15 miles and a lot of those could be replaced with e-bikes.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#154

Post by ghaff » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117

alistairSH wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia actually did require helmets for all cyclists. And cycling rates went down.

Bummer, but at the same time it's hard to argue with a measure designed to save lives. If seatbelts wouldn't have been compulsory for decades I think people would have a hard time accepting them as mandatory.

I don't really care for government safety rules like these in general. And I totally get that biking is relatively safe in places were it's deeply ingrained to the culture like Amsterdam. I still cringe at least a little bit though with pics like this. (from Amsterdam)

https://flic.kr/p/WRp6js

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#155

Post by atoav » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

As a life long cyclist (half of that time in big european cities, half on the countryside) I doubt that the muscle power to propell your bicycle forward is the issue that blocks a wide adoption of the vehicle.

As far as I can tell the (by far) biggest issue is the perceived risk involved which boils down to mostly two things: infrastructure and adoption.

Better infrastructure demands you not to be as hardcore to start riding the bike — more adoption makes cycling more normal and therefore safer (motorists and pedestrians start to think more about cyclists, which means less dangerous situations occur).

How to get people to cycle is also something that you can figure out by places where this worked (e.g. the Netherlands, Denmark etc.) instead of trying to create new products to sell.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#156

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #35

retrovm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are for sports. Ebikes have a ~50% market share in Belgium where approximately nobody wears a helmet ever. It's really not an issue.

Helmets are for any activity that has an impact risk to your head which includes cycling not just sports. I live in Austria where few cyclists wear helmets yet my girlfriend who works in the local hospital sees patients coming in with serious head injuries on a daily basis from biking accidents that could have easily been prevented by wearing a helmet. Since then we both wear our helmets religiously. You don't even h…

[deleted]

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#157

Post by carapace » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #107

carapace wrote: post #71

Just wanted to point out the "GeoOrbital" wheel. It's an all-in-one battery-motor-wheel that can replace the front wheel of most conventional bikes in a minute or two. Presto! New eBike. https://www.geoo.com/ (Hmm, I can't reach their site at the moment.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoOrbital

The Copenhagen Wheel https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/copenhagenwheel does the same with the backwheel and the website currently works. I saw a guy with it in SF at a signal and asked him how he liked it and he said "I love it!" so there's a random anecdote.

Ah, that's a beautiful, elegant design.

The geoorbital comes off in a jiffy and you can take it with you (e.g. when you have to lock you bike outside) but the Copenhagen is so stylish.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#158

Post by harshaw » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

milkytron wrote: post #93

For those who have e-bikes, what are your thoughts on riding them without the motor assistance? Is it heavy and difficult? Do they have battery regeneration from breaking? I've been on the fence about getting one, and normally ride a crappy hybrid bike to and from work every day, which an e-bike would be useful for. But I also do 40+ mile trips on weekends and am afraid that if the battery dies, I'll be lugging a hea…

I have a giant quick e+ and it has the gears to ride it without the motor, but it really sucks. I did a ride where I exhausted the battery and it sucked the last couple of miles. It's a 50 pound bike once the motor dies.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#159

Post by riversflow » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #142

riversflow wrote: post #138

This is a fantasy in the US, change my view. We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people. And, as other comments point out, there would have to be a sacrifice in terms of automobiles for this to truly work. I find it highly doubtful that Americans would be willing to make that trade. Also, I think that if it came up there would be significant push back from groups you wouldn’t expect, like the disabled or union t…

> We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people An e-bike doesn't care if you're overweight or obese. It might reduce range a little bit... But it's not an impediment to riding. Additionally in Denmark one can see a lot of out-of-shape people riding manual (non-electric) bikes. Urban biking does not require athleticism, just as suburban driving does not require the skills of a NASCAR driver. > there would have to b…

It doesn’t matter if a fat person /can/ ride a bike, if they perceive it to be more difficult, chances are they won’t. Adoption is a huge part of the problem and comparing adoption in a country that already has the infrastructure and public perception work out is laughable. Also a good time to point out that an overweight person is much more at risk of injury on a bike, and we don’t have universal healthcare. When you hit a curb in a car, you screw up your alignment, when you do it on a bike you crash into the ground, if you are unlucky it could be bad. While we’re talking about the average American, I’m getting (on mobile) that the average commute in the US is 16 miles, that’s a long way on a bike, especially if hills and inclement weather are involved. Denmark is a highly urbanized country with a temperate climate, unlike vast swaths of the US, and it is also mostly flat.

A big part of that $800 monthly cost is related to how cars are treated as status symbols. My monthly cost of ownership is closer to $100, all thing included, and I can travel to and from work at 70 mph comfortably in virtual any conditions. People are going to feel absolutely miserable biking to work at their minimum wage job in inclement weather.

Also

>Urban biking doesn’t require athleticism

While I agree in principle seems factually untrue in the US in my experience. The people I know who haven’t been hit by a car/bus on their bike skews strongly towards the fit crowd. You have to be fast, agile and alert to not get hit in the US, sadly.

I’m also going to call BS on the west coast actually getting anything done on the mass transit front, possibly Seattle, I’m less familiar with how things get done there, but in California a billion dollars doesn’t go very far at all in the construction biz, don’t forget that the Eastern span of the bay bridge cost $6.5B, took over a decade, and had 0 costs associated with land acquisition and zoning. The high speed rail project is proving to be also be an enormous boondoggle.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#160

Post by harshaw » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

If you are a road cyclist, the plus of getting an ebike is that you can now do rides where your SO/friend rides your ebike and you ride your regular bike. This has enabled me to do rides with my wife (who is a bit shorter but fits on the ebike) where normally the difference in pace would be... painful.