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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#481
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it is illegal to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk in most places

Yup. Bikes are 'cars' unless being walked. That includes crosswalks.

That depends very much on the location. In my area, for example, bikes are allowed on sidewalks if there is no bike lane.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... it's context to make it relevant to US readers. You didn't see me say there was a direct comparison to be made. And you're kind of contradicting your claim that it's totally useless. 121/million vs. 1/million shows at what order of magnitude the comparison takes place, which is good enough to contextualize things, and your example of Austin further shows that the order of magnitude isn't far off.

It's context that makes no sense. How about this one?: "In my neighborhood last year there were also no vehicle fatalities." Is that in any way helpful?

No. We have no knowledge of your neighborhood, whereas US readers have a good-enough picture of the US.

It's also useless because a neighborhood is too small a unit of measurement to be useful, period. Unlike cities, states, or the entire country, the vast majority of neighborhoods have zero vehicle fatalities.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#483
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US, which also allows cars and peds to share a "green" in the same direction. I regularly have cars nearly run me over when they turn left/right while I'm in the crosswalk with a valid crossing signal. The problem, in the US, is that drivers don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. They are completely self-centered. If there were penalties for hitting pedestrians or cyclists, this might change. I pr…

> Hitting a pedestrian or cyclist is almost always deemed an accident, with no fault assigned (or, if fault is assigned, a $200 fine is the result, not loss of driving privilege). This is common also in Sweden, but parallel green still generally works well. So enforcement cannot be the only explanation.

Two other things come to mind... - culturally, people in the US just don't walk for transport (outside NYC and a few other places). So, when they get in cars, they don't think to look for pedestrians or cyclists.

- the roads are more car-centric than European cities and suburbs. Crossings are poorly timed, poorly lighted, too wide, in the wrong places, etc.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#484
post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

With more data points, a scatter plot of city density vs. traffic fatalities would be fascinating.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then also, many pedestrians see the walk sign and just start crossing while staring at their phone without even glancing around to be sure there aren't any inattentive drivers heading their way.

While true, the distractedness (on the part of the pedestrian or the driver) doesn't absolve the driver of their responsibility to yield in this scenario. A driver who hits a pedestrian in this scenario will be subject to criminal and civil penalties, and rightly so.

I certainly hope I didn't imply otherwise. On a cultural and legal level, assigning fault/responsibility to drivers makes total sense. On a personal level, if I get killed I'm not gonna care that much that it "wasn't my fault" and I should take the precaution of looking up from my phone when walking in front of moving vehicles.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#486
post #469
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highway speeds are 90-110km/h (55-70mph). General speed limits are 80km/h and 50km/h (50/30mph) depending on pop. density. Speeds are often reduced if the road is sub par or if there have been accidents on that bit of road. Yes. The limits are low, but definitivly not _incredibly_ low.

What highway? I was pretty surprised to not be on a proper motorway, it was all 2-lane highways. IIRC it was max 80km, with plenty of 70km and lower limits. I drove Oslo Airport -> Flåm -> Bergen -> Oslo Airport. Looks like E16 / 7 / 52 were the roads involved, 968km loop.

Which mean you went the scenic route, crossed the mountain, hit the fjords, etc. The leg after Voss on Flåm->Bergen won the price of "the worst road in Norway"[1].

The motorways are mostly on the south-eastern part of Norway, where it's reasonably flat. There aren't that many of them, building infrastructure here is really hard.

[1]: https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/e16-bergen-voss-kara-til-_noreg...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#487
post #66
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are talking about jaywalking, but Europe and the US are really big. In LA you get a ticket for jaywalking, while in NYC everyone crosses anywhere including weaving though moving traffic. And some cities in Maine the pedestrian always has the right away at cross walks and otherwise don't have lights.

pedestrian always has the right away at cross walks Isn't that the very point of a crosswalk?

Most crosswalks I come across are only the designated safe place to cross. You still have to wait for the light.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited the USA for a conference, I looked up a nice coffee place that was just across the street from the academic campus where I was staying. I went to the nearest crossing point, waited for several cycles of the traffic lights, and still couldn't deduce when it was safe to cross. The road markings were black and white stripes, which mean "cars must always stop for pedestrians crossing here" where I live (UK…

It varies from state to state and city to city. Some have the very regulation you are talking about. I have never seen it enforced. In your case if there was no indicator light. Then you could go for it when the traffic was going in the same direction as you or when clear from the other direction. The general rule of thumb is from any corner you can cross. That does not mean you get to stop traffic to do so. Though i…

The law under the Uniform Vehicle Code, adopted by most states, is that there is a crosswalk (marked or unmarked) between any two sidewalks at a corner. Drivers have a legal responsibility to yield to pedestrians there. Drivers almost always flagrantly violate this law.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's context that makes no sense. How about this one?: "In my neighborhood last year there were also no vehicle fatalities." Is that in any way helpful?

No. We have no knowledge of your neighborhood, whereas US readers have a good-enough picture of the US. It's also useless because a neighborhood is too small a unit of measurement to be useful, period. Unlike cities, states, or the entire country, the vast majority of neighborhoods have zero vehicle fatalities.

I'm glad we agree

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that easily bypassed? I don't need my car nagging me because I put a large box in my back seat.

For the cars I had, it was only on the driver seat. I think it's fair to assume there is always a person driving.

I've got one car where the front passenger seat will set off an alarm but if I hit a button on a control stalk it'll ignore it. However, this car loses its mind if I start the vehicle with the driver door open or my seat belt off (pretty common when you want to get the heat or a/c going for a bit before you drive off)

I've got another vehicle where it goes full chicken little if I don't button the seat belt first.

Both of them make me nostalgic for a Mitsubishi I had where the "chime" was a specific speaker that was easily disconnected and not a full blown part of the stereo/canbus/ecu and blasting out of every speaker in the car.

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