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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#471

Post by jessaustin »

jellicle wrote: post #360
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure why they don't have more pedestrian catwalks in cities directly above the roads. That's a whole lot less expensive than elevated roadways (you have to support ~200 pound pedestrians instead of 80,000 pound trucks), separates the pedestrians from the cars, and doesn't require any additional land. And then you could have second story pedestrian entrances to buildings, which already have elevators in them…

Sure, it should take 15 minutes and several flights of stairs to walk across a single street, why not? Quite a few cities do do this (Florida, I'm looking at you!). It's a terrible design, might as well have a machine that punches all pedestrians in the face as they go by.

It would be even better if the punching machine were somehow controlled by passing automobiles performing extreme maneuvers...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#472

Post by jessaustin »

blattimwind wrote: post #279
trunc wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrians had the right of way before the cars existed

No, historically carriages have held the right of way, and the higher their occupants social status the more right of way they had.

Yes, horses take priority. That's true on nature trails too. Automobiles don't inherit anything from horses and horse-drawn carriages.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#473

Post by notatoad »

Mvhsz wrote: post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

using commas as your thousands delimiter as well as your field delimiter makes this really hard to read

Oslo: population 690k (metro 1.6m) / density 3938 / deaths 1

Nashville: pop 692k (1.9m) / density 1374 / deaths 82

Portland: pop 653k (2.4m) / density 4911 / deaths 34

Milwaukee: pop 592k (1.5m) / density 6155 / deaths 68

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#474

Post by kqr »

alistairSH wrote: post #327
klmr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> frustrating and illogical! That’s certainly a matter of opinion (and as a German currently living in the UK I disagree): Having separate green light for pedestrians means that the average waiting time is much longer (both for cars and pedestrians) and, further, green light times are often kept much shorter. Having simultaneous green light for parallel car and pedestrian traffic does mean you have to pay more attent…

I'm in the US, which also allows cars and peds to share a "green" in the same direction. I regularly have cars nearly run me over when they turn left/right while I'm in the crosswalk with a valid crossing signal. The problem, in the US, is that drivers don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. They are completely self-centered. If there were penalties for hitting pedestrians or cyclists, this might change. I pr…

> Hitting a pedestrian or cyclist is almost always deemed an accident, with no fault assigned (or, if fault is assigned, a $200 fine is the result, not loss of driving privilege).

This is common also in Sweden, but parallel green still generally works well. So enforcement cannot be the only explanation.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#475

Post by fyolnish »

throwawaysea wrote: post #465
megablast wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine thinking that making things more convenient for drivers is worth a lot more dead people!

At some level it is. If you think that any amount of risk is too great, then everyone should just stay in their home. But that's obviously impractical.

Well, if you can live like they do in Oslo and have 1 death. That seems worth it.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#476

Post by rootusrootus »

alkonaut wrote: post #438
turk73 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

> US standard of living is far higher. Than Norway? The country with 25% higher GDP per capita than the US, a 33h average work week, and an infant mortality rate of a first world country? Nah

Norway also produces nearly 10x as much oil per capita as the US. Everybody seems to forget that when pointing out how nice the place is.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#477

Post by noobermin »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #330
wozniacki wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those conveniences is more valuable than the human lives that are lost in traffic accidents. Again, cherry-picking cars or vehicular traffic, as some how a convenience that puts way too many lives at risk is just absurd. We, as a society in modern times, weigh the trade-offs of many deadly and even fatal things and allow them, only if the net good is far too great to be ignored or sidelined. There are well es…

>> Again, cherry-picking cars or vehicular traffic, as some how a convenience that puts way too many lives at risk is just absurd. I could point to many other such conveniences that are more harmful than they are useful, e.g. electronic devices that cause much environmental damage, but the discussion is about cars and safety. Regarding efficiency, this is a very vague term in this context. Cars are certainly more "ef…

These defenses of the status quo are quite weak and are mostly naturalistic fallacy that seems to stem from an ignorance of history. You'd expect better from HN.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#478

Post by rightbyte »

stevehawk wrote: post #319
pi-rat wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seatbelt issue is probably going away. My car will nag the hell out of me if anyone isn't wearing a seatbelt at speeds over 20 km/h. I assume this is true for most modern cars. Part of the population who didn't grow up with seatbelts is aging. I remember my late grandmother hated the seatbelts, they didn't exist when she grew up. Often she would pretend to use the belt, holding it in place by hand so that it looked l…

Is that easily bypassed? I don't need my car nagging me because I put a large box in my back seat.

You can put the passenger belt in the drivers slot, or, as I've seen delivery drivers do, put the belt behind your self and the chair ...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#479

Post by HarryHirsch »

rootusrootus wrote: post #476
alkonaut wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US standard of living is far higher. Than Norway? The country with 25% higher GDP per capita than the US, a 33h average work week, and an infant mortality rate of a first world country? Nah

Norway also produces nearly 10x as much oil per capita as the US. Everybody seems to forget that when pointing out how nice the place is.

That would be a feature, usually countries relying on primary production have large wealth disparities.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#480

Post by alkonaut »

rootusrootus wrote: post #476
alkonaut wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US standard of living is far higher. Than Norway? The country with 25% higher GDP per capita than the US, a 33h average work week, and an infant mortality rate of a first world country? Nah

Norway also produces nearly 10x as much oil per capita as the US. Everybody seems to forget that when pointing out how nice the place is.

Is that an environment argument? Or an argumenbt that the money somehow doesn't count or helps ensure a good living standard?

That oil money does help living standards. Especially since a big state ownership plus big Nordic welfare state ensures it ends up helping pretty much everyone.

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