Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#351

Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #326

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure why they don't have more pedestrian catwalks in cities directly above the roads. That's a whole lot less expensive than elevated roadways (you have to support ~200 pound pedestrians instead of 80,000 pound trucks), separates the pedestrians from the cars, and doesn't require any additional land. And then you could have second story pedestrian entrances to buildings, which already have elevators in them…

>Still not sure why they don't have more pedestrian catwalks in cities directly above the roads. I assume it would cost more in building and maintenance costs than sidewalks.

If there is a large network building owners will happily install and maintain them. In some places the expensive store fronts are on the second floor where all the people are: they take those cat walks from building to building without putting a coat on.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#352

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

Meanwhile, here in upstate New York...

https://13wham.com/news/local/pedestrian-hit-by-car-then-tic...

> A man in Ontario County was ticketed after he was hit by a car.

> Deputies ticketed Weaver for not being as far off the road as possible. The driver who hit him was not charged.

In broad daylight, incidentally.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#353

Post by TomMarius » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #350

TomMarius wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am already paying enough taxes to not be happy with paying for nothing with my own time on top of that. Every year the tax rate increases but the number of trams and subway trains is still the same.

The first result shows that's not true, and Prague has been building/extending lines and buying new vehicles. https://ceec.uitp.org/prague-investment

They are extending into suburbs, not anywhere it's relevant to most Prague citizens (extended city to city centre). They even decreased the number of trams going from our stop (a pretty major one, because it's the nearest city stop for the airport) into the city centre, and the number of subways is constant.

The D line is a meme at this point, it is supposed to be finished for 20 years now.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#354

Post by Mvhsz » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018

City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities

Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1

Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82

Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34

Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tennessee

[3] https://data.nashville.gov/Police/Traffic-Accidents-2018-/8k...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon

[5] https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/74093

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee

[7] https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/about-wisdot/newsroom/statist...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#355

Post by pi-rat » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #297

pi-rat wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seatbelt issue is probably going away. My car will nag the hell out of me if anyone isn't wearing a seatbelt at speeds over 20 km/h. I assume this is true for most modern cars. Part of the population who didn't grow up with seatbelts is aging. I remember my late grandmother hated the seatbelts, they didn't exist when she grew up. Often she would pretend to use the belt, holding it in place by hand so that it looked l…

For better or worse, seat belt alarm stoppers are cheap and readily available to habitual seat belt avoiders. I know at least one person who has such a thing. https://thetikit.com/ https://www.wish.com/product/57ea6315b8a56d0827d79f9d

I think I’m going to have to start selling different safety system bypassers, there’s obviously a market here..

Fire detectors covers/alarm silencers/extinguisher disablers.. Life boat/jackets deflators.. fake empty lightweight shell bike/motorcycle helmets.. reflector blackouts.. etc..

Kinda like buying Darwin Award lottery tickets..

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#356

Post by jellicle » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #338

mumblemumble wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really astonished that Americans don't do it the same way. Americans tend to have strange ideas about walking. If they think about it at all, they tend to think of it as something that's only done in extremis. I've discovered, for example, that, when I travel for work, it's generally useless to ask hotel staff if they can recommend any restaurants "within walking distance" when I'm staying in a suburban area. T…

Is that rue of all "Americans" (U.S. citizens) or is it just specific kins off places, like some suburbs? I have seen plenty of footage of people walking around large US cities. And what about rural places? Surely theree's nothing stopping people from taking long walks on the countryside if they live out in the boondocks, etc?

You can walk in the countryside all you want, but you'll be walking on the asphalt roadway with vehicles zooming along at 70mph and limited sightlines, so you'll probably end up dead in a ditch by the side of the road if you make that a lifelong habit. The driver who killed you probably won't stop, and would not be punished by the legal system even if they did.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#357

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #335

mongol wrote: post #2

That is amazing. It is easy to imagine that safer cars have contributed most to this. But there are so many other factors.. emergency response, alcohol, road quality, weather... I wonder how it would break down, if it was possible to measure it all.

Safer cars how? Cars are just as safe in NA where we rack up the pedestrian deaths. The two ton vehicle slamming into a pedestrian at medium speeds will probably kill them. The only way to solve this problem is to lower speeds or remove the car from the road.

Cars are less safe in North America, since they're very often SUVs, trucks etc. Those have terrible results for the pedestrian in a collision.

A typical European car hitting a pedestrian at 30mph is 80% survivable.

(This road safety video is 14 years old now, and since then some places in the UK have managed to introduce 20mph limits, which are even better.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvja-PA5Egc

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#358

Post by jellicle » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

mumblemumble wrote: post #310

bluGill wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sidewalks to nowhere" don't count as sidewalks. They count as decoration.

Former suburbs kid here. I lived about 4 miles from the nearest grocery store. I used the sidewalks in my area all the time. If you think that a sidewalk in a purely residential area only goes to nowhere, you spend way too much time looking at screens. Get out, meet, and spend some time with your neighbors.

Great that you had a sidewalk that went somewhere. Many suburbs do not.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#359

Post by ossworkerrights » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

t0mas88 wrote: post #250

alkonaut wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, having 0.02% blood alcohol limit (I.e. effectively a zero tolerance) is a good and cheap start. Next comes the expensive things: Replace the car fleet with large, safe and modern cars. Build infrastructure like pedestrian walkways etc to have few unprotected people in traffic. Replace crossings with roundabouts and rebuild motorways and other high speed roads to never have oncoming traffic (separating r…

The safety increase of highway speedcameras is very limited. They help the environment and generate a lot of cash, but in terms of accidents the impact is very low because not a lot of accidents happen on highways with split lanes and only cars. And those that do happen are statistically much more related to alcohol, drugs, tired driving and adverse weather. In cities it's different, there even a 10 km/h reduction ma…

Depends on the country I suppose. In Romania doing 150 km/h in a 50 km/h area is pretty common, and generally speaking reckless driving, road rage and a handful of other things where cameras would help. Oh, and the government made it to phone recorded incidents are not acceptable proof in court, unless the recording device is government licensed (needless to say the licensing process is not clear). In countries where people drive responsibly generally speaking, cameras might only marginally improve things, but in Romania it would mean a reduction in the thousands of preventable deaths happening each year.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#360

Post by jellicle » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #291

bluGill wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes perfect sense in theory. In the real world though space is limited. We cannot have separate spaces: there isn't enough room - unless you space things out so far that only only car transport makes sense, at which point why bother building paths for the other modes? Which is why suburbs don't have sidewalks: there is no place you can practically go by any mode other than car so why bother creating space for th…

Still not sure why they don't have more pedestrian catwalks in cities directly above the roads. That's a whole lot less expensive than elevated roadways (you have to support ~200 pound pedestrians instead of 80,000 pound trucks), separates the pedestrians from the cars, and doesn't require any additional land. And then you could have second story pedestrian entrances to buildings, which already have elevators in them…

Sure, it should take 15 minutes and several flights of stairs to walk across a single street, why not?

Quite a few cities do do this (Florida, I'm looking at you!). It's a terrible design, might as well have a machine that punches all pedestrians in the face as they go by.