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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like it would make sense to have at least legally separate pathways for motorized, less motorized (scooters, e-bikes), bicycles and pedestrians, because they are very different forms of transport.

It makes perfect sense in theory. In the real world though space is limited. We cannot have separate spaces: there isn't enough room - unless you space things out so far that only only car transport makes sense, at which point why bother building paths for the other modes? Which is why suburbs don't have sidewalks: there is no place you can practically go by any mode other than car so why bother creating space for th…

so why bother creating space for those modes.

My suburb had 2 very popular parks at either end -- as kids, we always walked or rode our bikes there... on the road since there were no sidewalks. Likewise when we went to a friends house we generally walked on the road (or cut through people's yards).

There are plenty of reasons to have sidewalks even if there's no commercial destination to get to, not everyone can drive everywhere they need to go. Of course, this was a time when kids were allowed some autonomy, nowadays maybe parents would drive us 2 blocks to the park.

The neighborhood still has no sidewalks, but I see speed bumps and "Slow down - watch for children signs", so seems that kids do still walk on the roadway and parents are worried for their safety.

I rode the school bus to school because the school was way too far to walk -- it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that the school was only about half a mile away, but with no sidewalks, it wasn't realistically walkable despite the short distance. We spent more time waiting for the bus every morning than it would have taken to walk there.

At the time it seemed completely normal - why would anyone walk when they could drive!? But now I pay attention to walkability and bikeability and avoid driving when I can. (not just because it's good for the environment, but it's good for me too)

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#442

These types of stats are almost meaningless to compare because most of the difference in outcomes is caused by cultural differences which are difficult and unlikely to change. There are two factors that have more effect on traffic safety in the US than anything else when compared to most of the rest of the world: 1) More total miles driven per capita, 2) Distracted driving. To expand on #2 above, most of the world st…

Requiring drivers to be 18 and take extensive driver training and having a zero tolerance for drunk driving is certainly “cultural”.

But for the the technical argument (cars, infrastructure) I’m not so sure. Manuals are definitely going the way of the dinosaur in Norway (people buy SUVs and Teslas - they don’t even have manual as an option).

Distraction is a problem but it seems it should be as big a problem everywhere where there are distractions. What helps there is infrastructure: a distracted person is much less dangerous in a roundabout than in an intersection. A cyclist on a separate path is less likely to be hit by both drunk and distracted drivers etc.

But yes these things are expensive. The consequence of replacing thousands of intersections with roundabouts is huge. Building bridges and tunnels so pedestrians never need to cross roads is expensive. Converting highways to be separated without oncoming traffic is really expensive, even if Norway and Sweden fancy the cheaper alternating 2+1 lane conversions.

Getting rid of the first part of deaths is low hanging fruit. Just change DUI levels (perhaps doing something about distraction but it’s unfortunately much harder as there are no breath tests for distraction). That’s almost “free”.

Going the rest of the way towards zero costs a lot of (tax) money in infrastructure, and that might be a harder sell.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're fairly common? Can you provide examples? The closest thing I can think of is a series of connected pedestrian tunnels that you see in some Canadian cities like Montreal and Toronto. Those primarily exist for a different reason; winter is months-long and so cold that you don't want to step foot outside at all. Pedestrian bridges don't accomplish this goal.

Des Moines IA. Minneapolis MN are two that I know of. They are fully enclosed, building to building. They exist in part because of winter, but have took on a life of their own.

How old is the skyway system? Were the buildings built with this in mind or were they added on later?

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live in the US, my understanding is that pedestrians always have the right of way at intersections (regardless of whether there are any traffic or pedestrian signals) unless: 1. There is a pedestrian signal that says to NOT cross, or 2. The traffic signal going in the direction the pedestrian is walking is red. So if the light is green and the pedestrian signal does not say to not cross, then the pedestrian h…

In the UK pedestrians do not have the right of way unless at a traffic light crossing or in the rare zebra crosswalks. That was rather a culture shock for me.

Rule 170 of the highway code: "watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way"

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#445
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always easy to keep track of the idioms in different languages! In this case you can also translate it to an American idiom: It's a pain in the ass :)

Huh? Well, could you provide an example of your idea of having 'fun' while in a car?

What he wrote was: "Not impossible but it's not very fun and the speed limits are very low."

What he meant was: "Not impossible but it's a pain in the ass and the speed limits are very low."

Nothing to do with fun, in the English sense of the word.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Des Moines IA. Minneapolis MN are two that I know of. They are fully enclosed, building to building. They exist in part because of winter, but have took on a life of their own.

How old is the skyway system? Were the buildings built with this in mind or were they added on later?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis_Skyway_System#Hist...

For Minneapolis, the first segment was built in 1962. Segments are often retrofits, as many of the buildings predate there system.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we're good at announcing initiatives like "Vision Zero", and continuing to pretend it's a real thing even after a decade or more (in some cities) of making no material changes and traffic fatalities staying flat or even increasing.

The people running "vision zero" are spending large chunks of their money buying facebook ads telling the public about the ads they are buying at city-owned bus stops. Mayor Ed Lee of SF introduced the "Vision Zero" initiative years ago, but unfortunately died in office and the department he left behind is in zombie mode with no leadership or direction so they're buying bus stop ads reminding bus riders to look for p…

Ok, but at least there money is going to public transport companies.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#448
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In comparison, Detroit MI in the US has the same population and something like 46 pedestrian fatalities per year. https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2017/04/14/report-detroi...

That number probably is for entire US

40,000 people are killed by cars every year in the USA. Over 4m are seriously injured or disabled.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#449
post #365
post #354

Some contextual data from US cities in 2018 City – City Population (Metro Area Population), City Density per Square Mile, City Traffic Fatalities Oslo [1]: 690,335 (1,588,457), 3,938, 1 Nashville [2][3]: 692,587 (1,930,961), 1,374, 82 Portland [4][5]: 653,115 (2,478,810), 4,911, 34 Milwaukee [6][7]: 592,025 (1,572,245), 6,155, 68 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville,_Tenn…

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Then if the us put a huge tax on cars, it would save lives too! Maybe we don’t need to drive as much. Maybe when we feel like a burger across town, we skip it instead of driving.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#450
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to look at total miles driven, not just population size vs. number of deaths. Doesn't Norway have huge taxes on automobiles which chill ownership? If so, then population is not relevant. If only 10% of people can afford to own cars, then the number of crashes and fatalities will certainly be low. The US standard of living is far higher. Whether that leads to more fatalities or not is anybody's guess. I would pre…

Also need to look at travel times. Norway has low speed limits and makes driving an inconvenience in the pursuit of perfect safety records. But it takes away from being able to get where you want quickly (cities with road infrastructure that is not over-subscribed are way faster to get around than walking/biking/public transit) and on your own terms (no waiting times, room for people/cargo, etc.). The tradeoffs for a…

Imagine thinking that making things more convenient for drivers is worth a lot more dead people!
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